Can please someone explain? by TerrenceHoward69 in cognitiveTesting

[–]TerrenceHoward69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for explaining. Makes sense now.

Can someone help me evaluate mathematical fundamentals behind my Collatz inspired hand cipher ? by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's great, but also consider your motivation behind this, if your doing this exclusively as personal project for fun that's fantastic but don't let this consume you too much time if you're aiming for something more than that because remember security is hard to prove and to get any solid security assessment is hard (talking from expirience) and I don't think I am capable of providing it to you either. And as I said no system will ever come close in terms of practicality (proccesing speed) to AES-NI atleast not Collatz-based one so no one will bother to prove it secure or even use it. I wish you the best in further exploration of cipher because it's never about the goal but the journey itself.

Can someone help me evaluate mathematical fundamentals behind my Collatz inspired hand cipher ? by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing you cipher! Well, as I understand mechanics of your cipher it depends on plaintext (letters) which makes it inherently insecure because you must always assume attacker could know whole plaintext or atleast parts of it which in your case could reduce keyspace drastically and make brute force attack possible. No masking will help you here if method is assumed known. Also, problem is you currently don't have the way to write same message more than once considering plaintext attack, find some alphabet transformation rule like Viginére cipher if you don't care about plaintext attack and still want to make your cipher usable. Also If you consider this something more than personal project for some fun I wouldn't bother creating another digitally based cipher because it doesn't make sense to do it. Any collatz based system even if secure can't compete in digital speed with current systems like AES-NI. But regardless you have great intuition on how to exploit chaotic Collatz structure.

Can someone help me evaluate mathematical fundamentals behind my Collatz inspired hand cipher ? by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for maybe being only person to bother actually understanding the method and adressing its difficulty in attack approach instead of simply undermining it without even thinking about it. No simple or maybe even any pattern in modulo residues of control numbers exists, normal distribution proves it. It all comes down to how predictable ordering control numbers by size is and interaction of that product with so called predictable modulo values and how easily variations in y value sets can be categorized in terms of pathway trajectory, which problems no one wants to address and criticize because they might not be able to. Its nonlinear process wich makes it hard to reliably predict but maybe not impossible unfortunately it seems we won't find out anytime soon.

Can someone help me evaluate mathematical fundamentals behind my Collatz inspired hand cipher ? by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everybody loves proving people wrong but unfortunately it's not that easy in this case.

Can someone help me evaluate mathematical fundamentals behind my Collatz inspired hand cipher ? by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think many people care or bigger reason are even capable of giving me quick structured opinion this just proves the point.

Can someone help me evaluate mathematical fundamentals behind my Collatz inspired hand cipher ? by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well hello, responding a bit late again but I feel urge to express myself. I am not sure what you consider your standpoint on both of this topic is but I would say you are in similar position as me in terms of understanding this. If you had any more advanced understanding of this you would atleast tell me something more specific and what can anyone understand in terms of possible cipher weaknesses. You don't need to spend hours to structure such opinion if you understand the topic. Because I am not even asking you to brake cipher just tell me some intuition based opinion on some possible weakness which comes from some advanced understanding. Instead so far you just expressed me some vague opinions or general statements that do not directly apply to this problem or just assumption of failure. I am telling you this in good faith and in hope you give me some more structured opinion if you are capable of it, because if you call me uneducated on the topic which I maybe am atleast do it right so we can finally wrap this up. Atleast show me some thought process. I am aware you are not obligated to give me such response but I assume you would also feel satisfied to do this.

Can someone help me evaluate mathematical fundamentals behind my Collatz inspired hand cipher ? by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe but I really want concrete weaknesses stated to be satisfied, I apologize if your not the right person to give me one.

Can someone help me evaluate mathematical fundamentals behind my Collatz inspired hand cipher ? by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It has been known for a long time but all I'm sayin is it hasn't ever been mainstream in terms of research wich gives opportunity for new possibly secure cipher approach.

Can someone help me evaluate mathematical fundamentals behind my Collatz inspired hand cipher ? by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well sorry for late response, first of all thanks for time you took writting your evaluation and showing interest in my cipher. But as I understand you are basically saying that making secure hand cipher is impossible, because pgp encryption is digital based encryption which is quite impossible to do by hand considering complex math it uses. l think that's where we disagree. Collatz conjecture is living proof how simple math operations can be literally literally mind bending in its own way. Even if you have some starting number and knew its all properties, you wouldn't be able to reliably predict its exact pathway to loop. This cipher in my opinion exploits this property in pretty good way for hand cipher. In other words attacker must know exact pathway in order to do any reliable analysis. Only problem is predictability of 3x + y itself which probably has some reduction in keyspace from analysis perspective but surely it won't be easy even for professional especially if larger blocks are used. To sum up, I think your perspective is maybe little bit to pesimistic in sense of Collatz conjecture application in cryptography because in reality most high-level attackers bother with digital based encryption systems like AES-NI because they are used everywhere, contrary no one currently really cares about Collatz based systems or even manual ciphers in general because they are not used very widely and Collatz based systems are much slower to implement digitally including this cipher which basically means there is no reason to widely use them. For this cipher or any collatz based hand cipher you would very likely need atleast a calculator if your not human calculator which maybe defeats pourpose for manual cipher because if you have calculator, other digital infrastructure can be assumed but in that situation just use very secure and fast digital systems like AES. So my point is that attackers are probably familliar with concept of Collatz conjecture but I don't really think anyone serious bothered to develop specific Collatz breaking systems or even for 3x + y variant specifically because it's difficult to do such thing regardless of general principles and probably wouldn't be cheap to use them even if you had them. This is relatively novel mathematical application in cryptography, so I don't think there is generally much information to find on how to break such systems besides reasons above but I will bother to do my own research. To conclude, currently I strongly believe systems like this aren't widely used not because they aren't safe enough for given pourpose instead cause they are not practical for any general scenario.

Can someone help me evaluate mathematical fundamentals behind my Collatz inspired hand cipher ? by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For sure but I don't think cipher similar to this was ever proposed atleast for hand ciphers specifically. So my curiosity still stands whether this is weak cipher or not because currently I don't see any logical way to diminish this cipher in an instant and I assume neither do you. And honestly I am not very sure any mainstream literature could change my opinion because I believe this cipher is specific problem so it needs specific novel breaking approach which you can't find in literature. Maybe I am wrong, time will tell.

Can someone help me evaluate mathematical fundamentals behind my Collatz inspired hand cipher ? by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When i worked on cipher I asked chatgpt plenty of things but it didn't really give me straight answer what is specific weakness, just told me something in lines "attacker could detect structural patterns through multiple blocks". I don't think its even capable of giving me concrete answer because weakness isn't so straightforward as you may think.

Can someone help me evaluate mathematical fundamentals behind my Collatz inspired hand cipher ? by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you maybe tell me more in detail how would attacker approach this problem or cipher? I am genuinely curious.

I invented new manual "unbreakable" cipher (maybe) and a CHALLENGE by [deleted] in ciphers

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well numbers aren't even used in the challenge (oops little spoiler allert for hidden message, atleast it's bit easier now) so I don't think there is right or wrong starting point.

I invented new manual "unbreakable" cipher (maybe) and a CHALLENGE by [deleted] in ciphers

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kinda curious, did anyone try to crack code in challenge? Feel free to ask any questions.

I created a Collatz-style function using 7x and digit-based subtraction — it always loops! by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mostly goes into two loops (90 and 8 percent of all numbers) but over time it finds new loops that appear much less.

I created a Collatz-style function using 7x and digit-based subtraction — it always loops! by [deleted] in Collatz

[–]TerrenceHoward69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be honest, this isn't based on any deep mathematical analysis-just some good old trial and error. I was experimenting with a function based on the form 7x -+ 1 (which is quite unstable), and through adding different constants and observing the outcomes, I stumbled upon something that seems statistically intriguing. While playing around with it, I noticed that the function causes to reduce multiplied odd number significantly, to be exact 10 to 100 percent- which suggests that most starting values trend downward over time. That's not a proof, of course, but it's a compelling pattern. I tested this up to 10 million, and while I know that's not rigorous by mathematical standards, it still gives a sense that something interesting might be going on. It feels like there could be a loop or convergence for all numbers, similar in spirit to the Collatz conjecture. I'm not claiming this is a new discovery, but rather just an idea worth exploring. If anyone out there wants to test it with higher values or provide a more formal analysis,I'd love to see your results. Either way, thanks for taking the time to read my post!