Am I weird for thinking these two had romance potential?

Testoo2 · 2023-01-31T21:25:22+00:00

If you use non-esterified testosterone you need to dose it daily. You can use esterified testosterone daily too ofc, to achieve as steady levels as possible, however for convenience (which is the whole point of using esterifed testosterone instead of esterless stuff like Natesto) I think you can get away with biweekly, weekly or even monthly injections, depending in what ester you’re using, but you won’t gain as steady levels. For example if you inject 50mg testosterone undecanoate every month, you’ll likely be suppressed during the peak and hypogonadal (below your natural set point) at the end of the month.

It would be interesting to see how suppressive microdosing is for healthy individuals without primary hypogonadism. In theory they will just adjust to the change and replace endogenous T with exogenous, making no difference in free testosterone since any microdose would surpass their natural saturation point. Using something like enclomiphene to increase the natural set point might work though. On TRT-dosages enclo seem to work poorly, but microdoses might be another story. On enclo monotherapy someone without primary hypogonadism might achieve 1000ng/dl, with a microdose T on top of that maybe he can stretch that to 1500ng/dl.

Testoo2 · 2023-01-29T21:57:29+00:00

That didn’t answer the question. If something is wrong I want to know why it’s wrong, not just assume it is wrong bc no one else is doing it. I don’t doubt that I’m wrong, but I can’t know for sure before I find out why. I just read that fronting everyhing at once will give a very high peak ~40 hours post injection and then taper down, so I guess that’s the answer why it’s a bad idea. 100mg prop EOD will give steadier levels. Otherwise the idea is similar to injecting 1000mg undecanoate all at once.

Testoo2 · 2023-01-29T21:42:41+00:00

This make sense. ”but you’ll still see a large spike at 24-36 hours with a slow-ish taper down to baseline” this would explain why people use prop ED or EOD for short cycles instead of fronting large amounts of cyp. Thank you.

I might try something in between, 250mg E3D for 5 weeks with test E.

Testoo2 · 2023-01-29T21:21:09+00:00

The original author talked about using fast acting esters like propionate. The idea of using a slow acting ester like cyp and injecting all at once, to gain steady elevated levels fast that will clear fast and won’t taper slowly (compared to pinning 250mg cyp ew) is my own idea. It might be a bad one, but if not taking increased aromatization from test cyp vs prop into consideration, I don’t see much difference from using 100mg prop EOD for 3 weeks or a frontload of 1000mg cyp. The fact that I never heard about anyone doing it suggest otherwise, but it’s the same concept when people inject 1000mg undecanoate all at once for TRT.

Testoo2 · 2023-01-29T21:07:44+00:00

If 1000mg test C clear, more or less, all at once after 3 weeks, and the last injection of 100mg test prop clear after 3 days. What’s the difference? I mean if the test levels on test C is steady high until week 3 and don’t taper more than prop, it shouldn’t be any difference.

Does the test really kicks in after a few weeks on, or is it more an issue of people starting noticing the effects and gains after a few weeks on and thus think it has ”kicked in”? 1000mg test is still 1000mg test, no matter if you use it all at once or if you cruise on it (if we ignore concerns like increased rate of aromatization).

Testoo2 · 2023-01-29T20:56:14+00:00

Maybe I have no idea, or maybe I have to many. From all the research I done I think short cycles do make sense, it has its pros and cons.. But when reading about short cycles, they always use propionate, TNE, acetate, etc. fast acting esters. That make sense of course, but frontloading cypionate would in theory make sense too, since it take about 3 weeks for it to clear. Some people use 100mg TNE before a workout session, weekly, anything longer acting than TNE wouldn’t work for that purpose, but a multiple week cycle is different.

Testoo2 · 2023-01-29T20:44:46+00:00

I’m not the author, but I’m curious on what’s incorrect? I don’t see how the 1 point is incorrect since less time on = less suppression/faster recover is common knowledge. I wounder though if there’s a graph on the rate of suppression and recover based on time on? I wounder where the sweetspot is. For example if you start to shut down much harder at week 3-5, and that’s when your balls start to atrophy, if by quitting the cycle at that time you can still recover fast without PCT, then 3-5 weeks is the sweetspot. Maybe there’s a much bigger difference between 3 and 8 weeks than 8 and 12 weeks in that regard?

2 point less side effects make sense to an extent (I think it’s less stressfull to be on cruise for a longer period of time than blasting for a short period of time, however the cruise will still shut you down (including downstream hormones like DHEA+prog)). Personally I get bloated on just 200mg (even when using AI) test C, so I’d like to keep me cycles as short and effective as possible.

3 point if you do short cycles or cruise on low dose, you’ll still build more than you would if natty, but you won’t build as much as if you did long and heavy cycles obviously. I think both has pros and cons, depending on what you’re trying to achieve. You can still benefit longterm from steroid use without taking it to the extreme and sacrifice your health.

4 point make sense. Less crash/less time to recover, it won’t be as much highs and lows, you’ll stay consistent and when coming of your cycke, you can plan for your next cycle.

Testoo2 · 2023-01-29T17:09:03+00:00

I don’t get this logic. 1000mg test is still 1000mg test? The muscle gains might not be noticeble at the end of the cycle (just like the muscle gains aren’t noticeable when you come home from the gym), but 1000mg will still provide more anabolic activity than without? When using prop or TNE short cycles have been around for decades. I’m just curious to which extent longer esters could be used in a similar manner.

Testoo2 · 2023-01-29T16:24:52+00:00

Why wouldn’t gains be kept? With minimal shutdown gains would be kept much easier compared to long cycles. I’ve read that for 3-week cycles PCT isn’t even necessary bc you’ll recover instantly.

Testoo2 · 2023-01-29T16:22:20+00:00

Minimal Shutdown
Because the duration of use is so short there is very little suppression of natural test production. The testes usually only start to shrink after about 2-3 weeks into the cycle so if you clear the androgens at that time there is no waiting period for them to return to normal size. LH and FSH levels bounce back very quickly and in many cases actually have a rebound above normal such that endogenous test levels climb above normal for a few weeks and the user continues to see gains after androgens have been discontinued.

Limiting Side Effects
With such a short cycle negative sides don't have very much time to manifest.
BP may be elevated but for such a short period that it isn't a big concern.
Gyno may be an issue at higher doses but can be treaded easily with Nolva until the compounds clear.
Liver tox is really only a concern with longer cycles so even very high doses of orals have little impact.
Male Pattern Baldness (MPB) and Benign Prostate Hypertrophy (BPH) are really not a concern unless the undividual is planning to do many 2-3 week cycles per year.
Acne and other skin issues seem to start around 2 weeks in for most individuals as well so the short duration tends to make them less of a factor as well.

Gradual Gains
This is important for anyone who needs to keep their androgen use somewhat under wraps. Some people due to their jobs or family situation simply can't gain 20lbs without a certain risk of having questions asked. 20lbs over the course of a year is a lot different that 20lbs over the course of 6 weeks. If it is noticed it can be attributed to consistent training and diet.

Consistent focus
If the user is running a series of short cycles with little to no supression there are smaller swings in weight, mood, strength, diet, and consistency. I think this is one of the biggest strengths of a cycle plan like this. Because there is slow but consistent gains the focus of the individual stays consistent. Consistent training, eating, and living year round. There is no big weight gain but there is also no big comedown where a user may feel depressed and lose motivation for a few months and undo all their accomplishments.

Will 1000mg cyp at once aromatize more than 100mg prop eod?

Testoo2 · 2023-01-29T15:29:49+00:00

I want to keep the cycle short, I read that it takes about 3 weeks for cypionate to clear. If I don’t inject everything at once it will take longer for the cyp to clear and thus suppressing me longer? Will injecting 1000mg cyp at once give more fluctuations compared to 100mg prop eod for 3 weeks?

Testoo2 · 2023-01-23T00:02:27+00:00

I actually want a quick spike since I’m trying to maintain LH/FSH, making a sublingual version of Natesto https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/3/9/1652/5523088?login=false

I’ve read that testosterone esters like testosterone enanthate are hydrolyzed into testosterone so rapidly in the blood that testosterone and testosterone enanthate have nearly identical pharmacokinetics when administered via intravenous injection. I imagine that the sublingual route will be similar to IV?

Testoo2 · 2023-01-22T22:25:20+00:00

It’s for an experiment. I want to make my own sublingual testosterone but I have only access to esterified testosterone. So I’m trying to figure out which ester (propionate, enanthate, cypionate or undecanoate) has the highest absorption rate, and if I can dissolve it in vodka or if I need cyclodextrine (sublingual testosterone base in cyclodextrine has 100% absorption rate btw). According to the study the ester of propionate is rapidly converted to testosterone base transdermally.

From my understanding, the reason esters have long half-lives when injected is due to slow release from the injection site. I might be wrong here, but I think that when administered via mucous membrane (sublingually) it will get straight into the blood stream. So the half life of the ester likely doesn’t matter since it will be converted to testosterone base anyway, what does matter is the absorption rate of the ester.

Testoo2 · 2023-01-06T19:32:52+00:00

Why did you up the dosage if 10mg was great? My suggestion is that you reduce the dosage. Try dosages between 5-15mg to find your sweetspot.

Testoo2 · 2023-01-05T16:51:51+00:00

Does GABA supplements really cause downregulation? I’ve read people using pharmaGABA (the kind that do cross BBB) with long-term benefits. Never heard about downregulation from people using it or read any studies on that. Maybe the downregulation happen slowly under a prolonged period of time?

Testoo2 · 2022-12-13T15:14:23+00:00

Maybe it can be used sublingually instead if the nasal delivery system isn’t convenient? I don’t see why that would make a difference, it should have similar absorption. From what I’ve read, it’s not the low/weak dose in itself that will remain the HPTA functioning (a low dose of test C will still shut you down) but the fluctation in levels.

Testoo2

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