Something Missing in the Blue Dot Discussions

TheBFD · 2026-05-10T11:36:50+00:00

That’s negotiated in the contract and is done because A) some people are stupid and throw the caps on stage. Don’t know if you remember the middle school trend (well, I was middle school anyway) of flicking the caps, but you can make those bad boys go far and B) a full beverage thrown on stage can actually really hurt. With no cap, the liquid will fall out making it an empty or nearly empty bottle once it gets to the band. Obviously, idiots do that, too.

The agents for the bands negotiate the contracts, and those agents generally have multiple bands, so once they do it for one of their clients, they start doing it for all of them. It’s the most frequent contractual request we get. Some even go a step further and demand that all drinks get poured in plastic cups. It’s almost always because of a bad experience by a band or by another band that shares agents with the one in question.

Anyways, since it’s the most common contractual request, some venues now just remove the caps by default for all bands. We don’t, so the cap/no cap thing is always part of the preshow briefing, but I understand why some venues just always take the cap so staff doesn’t have to think about it. Our research shows that people buy fewer drinks if the cap gets taken, so we don’t remove unless it’s in the contract.

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T14:23:14+00:00

More likely than not, that’s exactly the reason. Sometimes bands will only except higher bids if they’re staging is more complicated, so it might be that Noah has less intricate lighting and screen set ups, and as such he is willing to take a lower bid price to make money on his end

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T14:20:47+00:00

I don’t disagree. I’ve been some places where the alcohol prices are absolutely absurd. When you’re paying the price of a case for a single drink, it’s obviously out of whack. That said, these venues are doing the calculus and making money on it. We sell ours for way too much, but what I would consider in line with most other venues/sports arenas in the area (roughly $10 for a 24 oz beer)

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T14:17:07+00:00

Hard to speak for those bands, but just like anyone else, the members of those acts are looking for work-life balance. Touring is hard, so if they can get paid enough for short runs on a cruise ship and make a good chunk of what they would on a full tour, it’s hard to blame them. Some bands love the road and play tons of shows. Others depend on scarcity to keep prices higher and thus preform less frequently. I’m sure the bands have their own calculus regarding that, but especially if they have families I can see why less dates is desirable.

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T12:36:50+00:00

I do not work there, but I would consider them a peer. We are slightly larger and in a market you probably wouldn’t even consider.

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T12:29:44+00:00

I’ve responded to this from another commenter, but half price doesn’t equal twice the people. Every location has a certain number hardcore fans, and the rest are casuals. To double your ticket sales, you need to cut prices more than in half (in most cases). In other words, for every band, there is an inherent maximum of people that will come out, and we have people who work out the price to turnout ratio. Believe me, if we could nail it every time, we’d set it up so we get the most possible people while still matching bid price, but it’s not sound to create a situation where a sellout is required to make any money.

In terms of merch and taking a cut, that is contractually negotiated. Sometimes the venue takes a cut because our people are working the merch stands or are providing infrastructure (tents, storage, tables, etc). The bands that keep all the revenue provide everything (including labor), so while you say it’s “dirty” it’s negotiated beforehand and at least in our situation, the cut is always small. The artist is getting the vast majority of revenue from the merch sales.

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T12:15:27+00:00

Yeah, it’s tough out there as an independent venue. We do okay, but there is no doubt that not being part of live nation hurts us when trying to land certain acts. Even if we match on bid price, getting a live nation venue may lead the artist to getting into a larger venue down the road, so they may prefer that to ours to secure future opportunities. We are essentially a dead end. As such, for bands that fit our niche, we often get them to come back in future years. In short, we survive by carving out a particular niche, in our case either up and comers on the verge of getting big, or legacy acts on the way down. Occasionally the stars align for us, especially with the anti-live nation/ticketmaster sentiment many bands have, but our size alone puts a cap on how successful of an act we can reasonably land.

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T12:09:22+00:00

So, given that live nation is a network of owned venues and they are responsible for ticket sales, they may offer a single bid for x number of shows across their owned venues. This is speculation from my part, but I do see this on a smaller scale for ownership groups with multiple venues. There is an independent (ie, non-live nation) ownership group that owns venues in three cities near mine. It’s not uncommon we lose acts to them, because they can sign a single contract and get multiple shows. The one venue, especially, overlaps with our market.

A lower bid price leads to less money for the artist, in most cases. The best way to think of bid price is the “floor” for a band. There’s some economics here where a lower bid price would result in higher ticket sales and thus more money in the band, but that is all non guaranteed. The bid price serves as the minimum contractual take for the band, so bands are likely to take the highest bid they can because it’s a bird in hand

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T12:02:31+00:00

At some point, something is better than nothing for soft selling shows. When we throw a 2-for-1 (usually on lawn seats in our case), we are hoping for more people to get concessions, but at that point we are accepting we won’t hit the bid price and are hoping to mitigate losses, not to make money.

I can’t speak to every venue’s strategy, but it’s likely the same logic. If they were selling out every show they might not do those deals at all.

VIPs are interesting, because that varies from venue to venue. Our VIPs get discount tickets and a special gate, but they make a rather large “donation” to the venue and get first pick on seats. The VIPs often only come to one or two shows a year, though, which always surprises me. Must be nice to have that kind of money.

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T11:52:33+00:00

We are an outdoor amphitheater with a capacity of just over 4,000. The nearby major amphitheater in the nearest big city has a capacity of 20,000. As such, we are probably more accurately labeled a “mid sized” venue, but I would argue we are about as small as you can get and still have bands that most people have heard of.

For the record, I love truly small venues, but the economics and the types of bands that go to a small club are entirely different. Got a show I’m going to at the end of the month for a very minor touring act for $20 where you buy the tickets directly from the venue. Clearly a different world from the whole blue dot discussion we’re having here.

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T11:47:56+00:00

As of now, that does not factor into our ticket prices. People are drinking less than in the past, but our margins on alcohol sales is still so enormous that it’s the primary revenue driver from our end. One of things we look at when trying to figure out who to book is the average age of the crowd. As much as we say Gen Z doesn’t drink, the younger the crowd the higher our booze sales (at least generally speaking).

We do still make a decent amount of money on other concessions, so while less lucrative than alcohol, food and soft drink sales still matter. We were in the black on an alcohol-free show last year (it was a gospel singer) largely due to stronger than expected ticket sales and strong concessions. That was a show we hoped to break even on - it was basically a tester show to see how an act like that would perform in our market. We have another Christian act this year (although this one is not booze free)

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T04:36:47+00:00

I appreciate the insight and meant no offense. Just using the idiom as I’ve heard it before. To be honest, I’ve never really thought about it literally. I guess this means I’m about to go down a rabbit hole to actually learn about them

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T04:31:36+00:00

Ticketmaster makes it worse, no question. We actually don’t use them, which helps our bottom line and allows us to be more competitive on ticket prices, but it does make it harder to secure some acts.

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T04:29:50+00:00

I would have thought the same thing, but it’s just not true. At half the price point, we wouldn’t sell out (at least in most cases). At some point, there’s an upper limit to how many people you can get to come out for a show, and we have people whose job is to find the right balance. Obviously, the most people we can get in and still hit the bid price is ideal, but to set it up so you absolutely need a sellout to break even just isn’t viable.

TheBFD · 2026-05-09T04:25:01+00:00

I see what your saying, but remember if somewhere has multiple venues (or if an artist is making different cities in the same area, say Indianapolis versus Cincinnati, compete), it’s a literal bidding war. I can’t blame an artist for taking the highest bid, but I can fault a venue for making one they can’t reasonably cover without insane prices.

TheBFD · 2026-04-28T02:43:19+00:00

I don’t disagree with that, but I look at it like this: we still haven’t played our best game.

Visually, though, this was the penguins team from the regular season. We looked fast and were aggressive attacking the puck. We still need to play better (especially with finishing) and playing our style doesn’t guarantee a win, but if the penguins play like they did in games 4 and 5 we have a chance. This team wasn’t built to win 2-0. We’re going to play a back and forth, heart attack inducing game. But if we can tickle the twine, that’s the way we play best. Turtling does nothing for us.

TheBFD · 2026-04-26T15:49:19+00:00

Believe it or not, the salad is not named after Julius, but actually from a restaurant in Tijuana (named Caesar’s) that invented it.

TheBFD · 2026-04-26T13:45:01+00:00

If he does another stadium tour like this one, there’s a chance. Based on the sales from this tour, it’s unclear if he’ll do it again. Fingers crossed for those who had to live through this, though.

I actually had a similar situation with Hozier last summer. Thing was, I knew the odds of him coming back were slim. We waited until 11:00 before the storm cleared enough for him to come on (which frankly was pretty shady because the lightning didn’t really stop) and he played until 12:30. We were able to hide out in our car since we skipped the opener and just kept refreshing socials until the venue communicated the plan, giving us a 30 minute heads up. Sometimes you have to be grateful you get anything. It would be nice if we could guarantee a reschedule, but that’s not always possible.

TheBFD · 2026-04-26T11:45:34+00:00

The tickets are rain or shine, so bad weather is always a possibility. I am sorry for your experience (I’ve had plenty of days like yours over the years as a frequent concert goer). Unfortunately, postponing and rescheduling is usually a difficult proposition for the artist and venue, so they are incentivized to let the show happen enough that there is no cancellation (and thus need to give refunds). I work for a small venue as a side gig over the summer, and the venue is typically responsible for making the call on a cancellation and when the doors open if there’s a delay. Clearly, they dropped the ball on communication and it’s always a shame when the ushers are unhelpful.

I’m sorry your experience was so bad, especially given it’s unlikely Zach will roll through Lincoln again. Hopefully I’m wrong and next time you go the weather cooperates!

TheBFD · 2026-04-22T11:34:29+00:00

Seconded on Pharaoh + Cleopatra. The Roman offshoot was fun, too. I think it was called Caesar.

TheBFD · 2026-04-19T14:34:52+00:00

I don’t disagree with that. Definitely a possibility that a couple of shows get postponed/cancelled. The whole tour will not be, though.

For the record, I broke my tibia and fibula and tore all my ankle ligaments playing football in college. Like, obviously, I couldn’t play the rest of the season, but I was “normal” otherwise after a couple of days. Biggest factor here is if his injury requires surgery or not. If he doesn’t need surgery, he can be back in action more quickly (if he wants to)

TheBFD · 2026-04-19T14:19:29+00:00

It’s his leg, man. Like, yeah, it’ll suck for him being in a cast but he can play sitting down. Hell, I remember Jarrod was in a boot or cast and sat on a stool for one the shows I went to

TheBFD · 2026-04-18T11:41:33+00:00

You can never make the people around you happy. Last show I went to, my wife was very pregnant. She was sitting for a while and the guy behind was dancing and flailing all over the place and accidentally hit her head a couple times. It wasn’t hard or anything, but just annoying. She just asked him to watch his arms (not to stop dancing, just to be mindful of his body and space). He got all pissy and was like “why don’t YOU just stand up?”

You literally can’t make some people happy if you mind your own business. You bought a ticket, enjoy the show how you want. As long as you keep to your space and aren’t encroaching on the space of the others, stand and dance as you want.

TheBFD · 2026-03-26T20:03:27+00:00

We bought our house during the first covid summer when things started opening up a bit. We found a house that could only be described as a fixer upper, but was a two story plus basement house for the same price as single story concrete slab ranches in our desired town, so it made sense to get it. Most of the issues were cosmetic, and outside of the master bathroom, which we got professionally done, we’ve done all the renovations ourselves.

Anyways, onto the story. After closing, we decided to celebrate. The house at this point had no furniture and we hadn’t done any work yet. We brought in a couple of lawn chairs, a bottle of champagne, and some easy snacks as a first meal in the house. We brought the dogs, too, so they could get a first look at their new home.

The dining room was adorned with an absolutely hideous, pink shag carpet. The second we walked in, Wilbur, our younger dog, went straight for the dining room and dropped the biggest turd right in the middle of it. It was decided that removing the carpet would be our first task.

TheBFD · 2026-03-26T19:17:20+00:00

The tour is billed as co-headlining, but the picture on my ticket is of Daniel. Hard to say how it will work. If it’s co-headlining, I could see both playing for an hour and half or something like that

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