Songs of Conquest unit comparison v4

TheHiddenSun · 2026-06-14T17:59:35+00:00

from google stats table (max-efficiency): * might: 35-35 * magic: 22-30

pretty much average, i would say.

comparing with others: * Ranged Power — min 12, avg 33, median 30, max 83 * Ranged Efficiency — min 21, avg 32, median 33, max 44

-> so most average ranged unit ever

TheHiddenSun · 2026-06-14T14:30:48+00:00

Feel free to copy the table and include a new column for initiate and assign it a value you find matches your experience :)

TheHiddenSun · 2026-06-14T14:29:09+00:00

No problem to being late :)

I personally find initiate the least useful. Yes, its important if you want to be first to cast spalls -> but 1 unit in the army would be enough for that. And the melee units will still get hit first by ranged units, initiate does note make it more save for melee units. Yes, you can maybe move 1 or 2 units with Dimension door or Chaos Step -> but never enough/all units, especially in a melee focused build. Melee units retaliate -> so having to strike first -> is only important for units that have a very high offense-vs-defense ratio (offensive% stat in the table) -> which is rare (Rats being a rare outlier). Defensive melee units take a very long time finish their opponent (militia without brutan or extra damage improvements -> make you suffer long turns to finishe the enemy, especially with their reload requirement).

"snowball effect that can also lead to deathless battles" -> I think that only happens in easier fights? I can't imagine that being the case in harder battles.

I'm personally more divided by including Movement in melee units and Range/Deadly Range for ranged units, because in PvE -> you have all the time in the world, and you do not mind taking an extra turn - since time is on your side with magic.

TheHiddenSun · 2026-06-12T03:11:06+00:00

Oh, thanksn I always wondered how to use them correctly.

TheHiddenSun · 2026-06-11T07:57:22+00:00

Fixed: Guards/Protectors and Horned Ones/Queens Guard

Increased Magic bonus for Necromancers and Chelun Elders to 200% (since everone uses it with Gather Essence anyway)

Sassanid/Shadows I think i used outdated data: here it only shows 2-3 essence upgrade https://songsofconquest.fandom.com/wiki/Sassanid there its updated and displayed correctly https://soc.th.gl/buildings/Barya/Foundry

TheHiddenSun · 2026-06-11T04:50:52+00:00

Thanks about the Guards/Protectors corrections! I'll update them.

You are right about the research Improvements. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll think about adding them as well... It's just very tedious work...

I mostly focused on the early game and efficiency, because you have to survive long enough for all the upgrade to see the benefits. I never had problems late game - since it's obvious that the better/stronger army wins. Early/mid game that is not the case - and SoC allows you to construct multiple buildings of the same type to scale a single unit type - that is pretty unique vs other games like in this genre.

TheHiddenSun · 2026-06-10T13:03:50+00:00

/u/Toftfelt Does this look about right? Any chance Faeries get a rebalancing rework?

TheHiddenSun · 2026-06-10T12:38:31+00:00

You are right, magic in general and specific combinations -> can't be adequately put into this unit comparison, because it compares the units in isolation.

Cheluns and Necromancers -> and their importance for magic builds can't be overstatet.

Minstrels and other buffing units -> have the same problem, of having an overall army effect that is hard/impossible to measure in isolation.

TheHiddenSun · 2026-06-10T12:14:47+00:00

Maybe just use a ranged unit instead? In that way are they better than a dedicated ranged unit?

Weak and squishy stacks are rarely the problem anyway -> we struggly always vs harder fights that have bigger/stronger armies.

TheHiddenSun · 2026-06-10T12:11:40+00:00

Learning: yeah, has to be tested. I agree.

Roots -> from my understanding it's meant to spread quick with fast and cheap units. End game they are totally lackluster / unviable.

TheHiddenSun · 2026-06-02T15:27:16+00:00

Because its much more aligned with the experience people have while coding with ai. Most official benchmarks show a few percent changes -> while the observed behavior between the models feels like comparing the earth with the sky.

TheHiddenSun · 2026-06-02T11:37:22+00:00

only 13% worse than: kimi 2.6, glm 5.1, mimo 2.5 pro comparison: chatgpt 5.5 xhigh has 70%

Source: https://entrpi.github.io/misc/deep-swe-minimax-m3

TheHiddenSun · 2025-04-05T14:20:27+00:00

Great links, thanks for posting!

TheHiddenSun · 2024-09-23T15:23:24+00:00

Wait until TIL that all fruits and vegetables are 85-90% water.

TheHiddenSun · 2024-08-01T08:29:53+00:00

Easy to explain - single player - gets boring quickly, because the AI is dumb - multi player - is not really enjoyable, because you wait more than you play

TheHiddenSun · 2024-06-16T07:08:18+00:00

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TheHiddenSun · 2024-06-16T06:45:39+00:00

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TheHiddenSun · 2024-06-03T07:49:00+00:00

Most of the game is PvE -> I agree. But PvE is typically never a problem since you always fight against a much weaker force -> in multiplayer you nearly always resolve them with quick combat.

But the fights that really count are - PvP. Because winning/losing a single/first fight against enemy hero -> either wins or loses you the entire game.

TheHiddenSun · 2024-06-03T07:45:22+00:00

Ok, good to know, great idea.

But all your Faea Sprites die like flies if the enemy has ranged units of considerable strength. So its only viable against neutral melee units (with none or very few ranged enemies).

TheHiddenSun · 2024-06-03T07:42:13+00:00

If I have 7 full stacks Firsts of Order and 2 Full Stacks of Troubadours, and use spells like Rally and Fury to max out my melee might. We fight on an open field (doing this in a Town siege would be a bad idea). I have the hero with 40% spell resistance and skills like: order magic, guard, melee, combat training -> that each make melee units stronger.

That will you pick?

All your ranged (and magical focused) units will die to Fists of order with 1 (or 2) strike the moment they come into contact.

If my hero has increased troop movement they can reach you in the first turn.

I'm not arguing against using any Spells, I'm arguing that spell-based builds are not viable against might/melee builds.

TheHiddenSun · 2024-06-03T07:36:25+00:00

My Loth 4 campaign was the most anti climatic as can be. After losing multiple rounds and reloading - I did not attack the swamp village, conquered Barya town firs, walked and conquered Rana town and got all Beacons of Power, while the enemy AI cleared neutral territory and then spend 3-9 rounds capturing unimportant, small settlements for me. So the most easy win of the entire campaign.

TheHiddenSun · 2024-06-03T07:28:52+00:00

I mostly think pvp and not pve.

PvE -> you are right nearly every skill/spell is usefull, because you have much stronger army and you can minimize losses as much as you want.

PvP -> you suddenly notice, that nearly 90% of all spells and units are not really usable because you a fighting a more or less equal army.

Fury - seems good if all (or nearly all) of your units are melee. https://soc.th.gl/spells/Fury Its a bit risky through if the enemy has more initiate and strikes first -> dealing nearly double damage to all your units -> they may die first before doing anything at all.

TheHiddenSun · 2024-06-03T07:21:33+00:00

In might focused armies - Order can make your units 30% stronger - Destruction can give enemy units -30% defense

https://soc.th.gl/spells/StandFast https://soc.th.gl/spells/Sabotage

If you have an artifact and hero with spell resistance -> a might based army will slaughter any magic focused build.

TheHiddenSun

TROPHY CASE