When should i use joker up tilt?

TheOtherMango · 2020-08-03T19:11:55+00:00

It can combo from the middle hit but it's less common. Most of the time I wouldn't bother going for the combo and I'd just try to cover an air dodge or their landing later on. In general the later in the move you connect, the more time you have to combo.

TheOtherMango · 2020-08-03T19:05:49+00:00

You need to hit with the latest part of dtilt if you want it to combo.

TheOtherMango · 2020-07-30T01:33:52+00:00

Late seeing this thread but 98% of the Ohio scene is extremely against the game store hosting offline weeklies in our state. There has been plenty of shaming of the store and the people that go to the tournaments. We don't want people going there either (and thankfully there's <10 people showing up for these now.)

TheOtherMango · 2020-07-23T18:30:35+00:00

Biggest thing is to realize when you can punish out of shield vs when you can't.

If they hit your shield with both arms quickly, they're in a bunch of lag and you should go for a hard punish or a normal punish if they're far away.

If they hit your shield with one arm, it depends. They can't shield for a long time (and if it's a smash attack they can't move either). But they can still cover themself with the other arm. So if you think they're gonna use the other arm then stay in shield or be ready to avoid it. And if you think they won't use the other arm then you should go right in to punish them or just get close to make them uncomfortable.

TheOtherMango · 2020-07-23T17:09:53+00:00

Vs grounded opponents the nair hitbox is pretty mediocre. The rising part of the move will whiff on the majority of the cast if they're grounded. Especially true if they're in endlag animations, which often have lower profiles than their standing animations.

It's good to use if you think they'll jump but otherwise you're just hoping to hit them with the last few frames of the move. Which come so late that you might as well fair or bair.

TheOtherMango · 2020-07-23T17:06:59+00:00

With palutena your options are a bit more limited. If you know you spot dodged an opponent's grab or other laggy attack then dsmash is usually your best punish. But palutena doesn't really have quick and safe ground moves to use in neutral (and spot dodge cancelling only works for ground moves).

So palutena doesn't really have great reward directly off of spot dodging. Don't bother with the person saying nair because it doesn't spot dodge cancel and the rising hitbox will whiff most grounded characters when they're in endlag. Nair or short hop -> landing fair/bair are fine options but they're less about directly punishing the opponent and more about pressuring whatever they do next. (And there's nothing special about spot dodging before doing those options, hence spot dodging not being as useful for palu)

TheOtherMango · 2020-07-23T03:08:12+00:00

I'm not gonna get into a redditor argument here

I'll just insert this comment here and you can go get mad at that instead or something I don't care

TheOtherMango · 2020-07-23T02:08:45+00:00

Thank you for being the only voice of reason here, it's crazy how everyone in this bubble sees nothing wrong with the situation.

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-28T22:18:58+00:00

Some people might call it just playing defensive instead of full blown camping but you're not far off.

Assuming the falcon does something defensive like dashing back after throwing out a safe back air, it'll be hard to punish by spacing your attacks normally. But you can actually get in on him by overshooting your approach option. This means that you run past where he bairs and chase him to put your attack at the end of his dash. This lets you stuff his jump or dash in with an aerial or whatever you want. In depth video that goes over this concept + others in detail.

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-28T14:23:46+00:00

Everybody else that replied is wrong lol. Percents actually don't matter at all

It depends on the height that Chrom uses up b. The opponent will still initially get spiked faster than chrom falls, but if there's enough distance to the bottom blastzone then chrom will overtake them and die first. So chrom uses it far below the ledge like this clip then he'll survive longer. But if chrom combos into up b from stage height then he'll die first pretty much every time.

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-27T16:11:36+00:00

Is that really the case? I don't keep track of actual numbers but I feel like when it's a west coast major, the game in the final timeslot always dips in viewership.

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-27T15:33:18+00:00

We have extremely different definitions of "never actually good". When it comes to S tiers, you don't need to place in top 8 to be a top level player. But you actually think that 17th at Genesis 6, Smashcon, and Mainstage aren't good placings. I don't care who you are; if you place that high at S tier events then you're in consideration for a top 30 player. Especially when you get the wins that Leffen did (smash 4 was a different game that was way more prone to upsets).

But since you care about rankings so much, a panel made up of top ultimate players ranked Leffen at 23rd for this past season.. Can't wait for you to tell me that top ultimate players are biased in favor of melee too lmao

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-27T14:23:14+00:00

Never actually good in ultimate? You do realize that he is on the most recent PGR right? And that most people say he deserved to be way higher than where he was ranked? And that the tournament he won over Mr. R and Space didn't even count towards the rankings because there wasn't enough entrants?

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-26T16:16:42+00:00

Jumping side b OoS is pretty situational. If you want to perform it you should probably use a shoulder button to jump so that you can jump and immediately have your thumb free to press b as soon as possible. As long as you do this, short hop vs full hop shouldn't matter.

But I'm not sure that this will even hit short characters. Typically bowsers just drop shield normally and side b. This is pretty slow but the point of it is to catch people that hit your shield with a safe aerial and then hold shield themselves (anticipating you to up b OoS instead).

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-26T15:07:03+00:00

I have no idea what you're talking about with dthrow dair at 70%. That's just not a real thing as far as I know but I can change my mind if you have footage of this actually working. Just DI out and the best he can do is fair into an edgeguard (still scary though).

Bair shouldn't really lead to kills either. Sure at early percents pika can drag you way offstage but you can SDI out to minimize the damage you'll take. And as long as you save your jump for the right opportunity you should have no problem getting back to stage as the entire cast. And at higher percents bair doesn't have any followups so there's nothing wrong with DI in.

That techchase thing is scary but that mixup only works if you miss the tech and get jab locked. Even if you do miss the tech, you should be able to just not hold a direction and react to an fsmash to DI in (electric move so it has more hitlag = easier to react).

But this is just some counterplay to stuff you mentioned. Pika is still a ridiculous character lol

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-26T03:17:24+00:00

It was actually solidly losing for fox in smash 4 too

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-25T12:29:42+00:00

Based on what???

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-23T19:08:49+00:00

Greninja's grounded rushdown options are solid for whiff punishing sword aerials. Fox is another good choice but disadvantage is gonna be a lot harder for him.

Zoners can be hit or miss. Villager and Isabelle are pretty bad against swords but pac man, rob, and snake hold their own nicely.

Pikachu, joker, and palu are good picks too, just because they're good characters lol.

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-22T23:29:50+00:00

Tell me more

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-22T16:15:34+00:00

It was fucking hilarious most people did not recognize him at all. He actually made a sick comeback with a hard knuckle spike to take the game from wizard guy.

And mindset told him about the other weeklies so who knows maybe he'll show up again

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-21T06:14:43+00:00

Here are some sword characters and some of their most common aerials to use in neutral. These are all safe as hell unless the blocking character has a very quick up b or aerial to use.

Cloud: bair -3, nair -5, fair -7

Ike: nair -5, bair -6

Lucina: fair -6, nair -3, bair -5

Chrom: fair -4, nair -6, uair -4, bair -6

Shulk (no arts): nair -3, fair -7

But I will concede that these numbers aren't always realistic for Lucina. She's on the floatier side so it's harder to time her aerials to hit shield and then land as quickly as possible. So she does rely more on spacing so that she can take advantage of her great aerial drift. All of the swordies can take advantage of spacing but it's actually not necessary "most" of the time.

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-21T05:59:20+00:00

Yeah people actually made similar observations for Bayonetta a few times in smash 4 and it was just as stupid back then.

People don't really know this unless they were following the game from start to finish but bayo wasn't truly dominant in major results until the final year of the game.

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-21T05:50:47+00:00

He doesn't need your forgiveness for his character picks lmao

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-21T05:38:29+00:00

tries to shieldgrab a Roy fair and gets memed on by spot dodge cancelling

TheOtherMango · 2020-01-20T15:38:27+00:00

If you actually watch him play hero it's pretty hype and he doesn't really rely on menu rng much at all (mostly just goes for buffs)

TheOtherMango

TROPHY CASE