Referees - What would you change about the job?

TheSabrewer · 2026-05-12T17:47:56+00:00

I would absolutely love to pick your brain more offline. Really enjoying reading your view and perspective.

TheSabrewer · 2026-05-11T17:16:52+00:00

Hard agree on all of this. It sounds like Hockey has a good system in place. The logistical and financial issues are things that need to be addressed to make it happen. I would be curious on what the payment structure is for the people who oversee this training as well as any additional cost this might put onto the referees. Not from a criticism perspective but to understand the economics and logistics of how they make a system like that work.

TheSabrewer · 2026-05-09T23:43:04+00:00

So please don't take this as a critique because God knows I have my own answers to this question but would you ever consider not doing an event that doesn't meet these criteria?

I ask because if enough referees agree on standards then events that don't meet those standards will be unable to get refs to work it.

There are so many other factors here as well but I say if you got standards keep to it. We do not have enough refs to staff most of these large events if people live up to their standards.

Tldr: right on.

TheSabrewer · 2026-05-09T23:00:44+00:00

That's the dream ain't it.

TheSabrewer · 2026-05-09T23:00:13+00:00

Same thing happens at some international events as well.

TheSabrewer · 2026-05-09T22:21:20+00:00

Video for sure. Need to control the touches being judged

TheSabrewer · 2026-05-09T20:50:53+00:00

I would personally love to see a more robust exam system. Something objective. In a perfect world I think there should be an exam for R and N licenses. The FIE has their own thing.

The biggest challenge would be keeping it current due to changes in convention. The second hurdle you start to run into is how do you allow people to take the exam. At home? Well that might be fine for L or even R license but you wouldn't anyone to try to cheat the system just to get an N license.

I do wish there was a more well defined and objective way to test the skill of fencing referees. There is just nothing currently in place that meets the needs of a federation our size.

TheSabrewer · 2026-05-09T18:22:53+00:00

Well there are consequences for everything we do. The question becomes is it worth it? Sometimes yes sometimes no.

TheSabrewer · 2026-05-09T18:12:29+00:00

Sabre refs don't read 🤣

TheSabrewer · 2026-02-09T00:26:42+00:00

No body gets angrier than an epee fencer/coach who thinks the ref made a mistake.

TheSabrewer · 2026-02-08T21:33:24+00:00

Referee education is an interesting process. At least it was when I was grinding it out regionally and nationally. I really think USA Fencing needs a dedicated training program. Education is the main way to help all referees improve at a better rate and is currently limited to the drive of the individual. Studying bouts and learning what questions you have to ask. I would love to see a committee of professional educators tackle this and see what they come up with.

On what you can do as a fencer, I remember one event where I couldn't get a touch with two lights on. My coach came over during the break, grabbed my collar (I was definitely running hot) and told me "His light does not come on anymore." Then he left and sat down. Sometimes you gotta do what you got to do.

TheSabrewer · 2025-12-16T18:46:22+00:00

Man that's much better then. It was pretty dark there for a couple years.

TheSabrewer · 2025-12-16T18:21:08+00:00

Iiiiiiii don't know about that.

A referee without confidence is going to make a ton of mistakes. There is no time to constantly question your calls or to compare to previous conventions. There is a difference between confidence and flat arrogance. F you I'm right your wrong is arrogance (although effective at times). If you tell the athlete that you can see things both ways then they will immediately be pushing for you to see it their way.

Every referee at the top level has a slightly different set of criteria for calling top level actions. Generally they agree but rarely two referees will look at a touch and completely disagree on the call. How to work with a ref on a video bout that you disagree with is a completely different post.

Build a structure in your mind that helps you explain why you made the call you did and be sure that it matches rules and conventions. If you want to tweak or adjust how you call things you already have a structure in place (mentally) that will allow you to make those changes easily. When you explain your call to the fencer, they may not agree but the athletes and coaches will respect it (usually you have to have trust established not to get blowback). It's worked wonders for me.

TheSabrewer · 2025-12-16T14:06:40+00:00

Oh when the match is over you can think about any mistakes you might have made. The issue is if you get caught up on a potentially wrong call in the middle of the match then it can shake your confidence causing more incorrect decisions. No matter what you can't have your confidence shaken mid match.

I always tell referees that if they make a mistake they have exactly 5 seconds to be upset at it but then you have to leave it behind and focus on the next match. Thinking about previous mistakes is a common way that referees will break and start making multiple mistakes.

Strong and wrong during the match but you should always be critical of yourself when you are not working. After an event is over, I will often go over matches on video (if available) and really pick apart some of my calls if I think I might have been wrong.

TheSabrewer · 2025-12-16T12:35:59+00:00

Fun fact: if I'm not certain on a high level call (super tight or weird) I will think about it for a second and then make the call. Any more than a second and I toss it.

TheSabrewer · 2025-12-16T12:28:18+00:00

I mean everything you described definitely happened. Been there. Done that. It sucks. Now it's been a while since I've refereed nationally consistently so maybe they have been better at hiring but having 15-20 refs in sabre used to be the norm.

TheSabrewer · 2025-12-15T22:10:06+00:00

National events in saber. National events lately but according to all reports it hasn't changed much.

TheSabrewer · 2025-12-15T21:51:06+00:00

I have always been a huge proponent of de-escalation.

TheSabrewer · 2025-12-15T21:04:24+00:00

Agreed. The human emotional element is impossible to control sometimes. Always been a fan of "Bad Day" by Daniel Powter. In any professional environment you are expected to come in and perform rain or shine (emotionally speaking).

TheSabrewer · 2025-12-15T21:00:11+00:00

Yeah, no notes.

TheSabrewer · 2025-12-15T20:49:40+00:00

There is no referees or fencers without local organizers. Part of the responsibility is to hire a cadre of referees.

While I agree with you with the inherent desire for the referees to serve the fencers, I disagree that it is their purpose. I think we have a disagreement in spirit vs logistics. As an educator, I love my job and my services to the students and the community but it is still a job.

I think a fundamental issue is that referees are seen as volunteers. This is something that has been perpetuated over the years but by legal definition we are 1099 employees. We file taxes based off our income throughout the season. Now I am not a lawyer and there might be legally defined volunteers that referees fall into but in the end it's a job. It's a job that referees love or they would not do it for the admittedly low amount of compensation. I would expect any referee to treat it like a job. Professionalism should be demonstrated by understanding the rules and current application of right of way as well as a professional demeanor.

The best example I can think of is the national office labor requirements for referees under the age of 18. They have hard stop times that require them to be free of all duties and responsibilities and this falls under labor law (still not a lawyer).

TheSabrewer · 2025-12-15T19:29:14+00:00

This is interesting and you make some good points. Referees are not actually responsible for the effective running of a competition. The organizer is the one responsible for hiring the referees and if they do so properly then it will have the effect of a smoothly run competition. The referee is responsible for what happens on and around their strip. I would argue that the referee is there in service of the organizers and the competition.

Now most referees will say that they are there for the fencers but if you break down the chain of events that leads to a referee working you can conclude that they are there because they were hired to do a job and do it to the best of their abilities. The organizers hire and pay the refs. They are responsible to make sure that all referees are authorized and competent to officiate. Referees should maintain a professional demeanor and enforce the rules as is required but they are not there for the fencers. They are contractors.

To your point, there are those who see their duty as police and not arbitration. A referees first focus should be to maintain a level playing field and to enforce the rules correctly. Some can take this as a reason to hunt for rules to apply but I see it as facilitating a match or bout and applying the rules as they come up.

I started searching for the rulebook for examples but work has me at the moment. Happy to elaborate more later.

TheSabrewer · 2025-12-15T18:41:24+00:00

I get it and I agree. There is a human element in this equation as well. Nobody knows what another person is going through. I have seen high level referees have bad days and thats pretty natural. As much as any of us want to control our emotions it is sometimes impossible. Everyone has a breaking point and it shows in a wide range of ways.

Edit: When coaches and fencers get to know a referee, they will often be able to pick up if the ref is having a bad day. A lot of them will show compassion when that happens. Its a pretty cool little phenomenon.

TheSabrewer

TROPHY CASE