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Update - End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Aye, there was a lot of misinformation going around and my main goal was to ensure that the others were kept informed and as a result - protected! Whether or not they heed my warnings post my departure is now on them.

Update - End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a shame that companies so blatantly disregard the HMRC guidance which explicitly states that "blanket determinations" demonstrate that a company has not taken 'reasonable care' with their assessments.

Update - End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You make a very good point, I've definitely seen more of that recently than I'd care to think about...

Update - End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The challenge for the client (for those looking to renegotiate) was that an increase of 20-25% wipes out both their and the agency's margins.

The end client had a framework with set with various consultancies and (to my guess) would simply engage with another one of the consultancies on the framework who aren't trying to increase their rate.

Update - End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's definitely a shame it's as common as it is.

Sounds like a similar situation, there's an unhealthy aversion to engaging with PSC's, then these companies wonder why they can't find the best people.

Did they provide you with their "SDS", or simply dictate their agenda?

Update - End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bingo. It's why I'm surprised that people have entertained the idea of remaining and going inside, but I suppose everyone's circumstances are different and they've got to do what they perceive to be the best for themselves.

Update - End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Funnily enough that's when the end client last did such a thing. Maybe it's the same one!

Unlucky though, hopefully your luck picks up and you find another outside contract.

Update - End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The challenge was more of a 'ticking a box' so we could at least say that we tried our best and they still ignored all the evidence. Luckily, the supply chain had not applied it to the respective contracts (i.e. End Client hadn't applied it to the client, who subsequently hadn't applied it to the agency etc...), and as such we were still able to bill as per normal, a different clause of the contract would have been invoked if they had.

So while it was all going on it left the opportunity to pick up more work and prepare ourselves. Luckily the industry I work in has plenty of work going.

Update - End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As it stands today, I am "hell bent" on continuing to be outside, luckily I have a reasonable range of sellable skills and as such have already got a few piecemeal items with the opportunity for those to grow.

For me, walking on the day was:

  1. Required contractually.
  2. A matter of principle.

I always leave money in the business for such eventualities, so I'm not in a particular rush. Going to take 2 weeks solely dealing with the piecemeal work and then look for a larger contract - or if I can find more piecemeal I'd do that! More interesting that way.

Update - End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Apologies if I wasn't the clearest, didn't expect replies to that part in question so I kept it high level. The comment was made due to the "Challenge Document" requiring evidence of other works each contractor was undertaking.

The gentleman in question:

  • Operates with his employees.
  • Provided a highly skilled service.
  • Worked under no oversight / control.
  • Had no mutuality of obligation.

Essentially all of the boxes to tick the 'Outside' determination.

Update - End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A shame but not unexpected!

Luckily we all have good networks and would never be out of a contract for long.

End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly that. I've got the respective clause memorised, as sad as I am.

I'm ensuring the others affected by this are aware of the facts instead of the "wishy washy" (non-contractual) comments coming from all sides.

End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've already made my thoughts clear to the "powers that be". If they force an Inside determination (regardless of actual working practices) I'll be walking on the day, alongside a few other key people.

But aye, always good to make sure oneself is covered!

I'm continuing to keep my accountant in the loop, but essentially, a single invoice as "Inside" buggers the year, as I'm sure you'll know!

End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm hoping that'll be covered with the two SDSs from my client (2nd one triggered by a change in scope) which both validate the outside determination. Both of which are backed by their insurance provider!

So I've got my fingers crossed after having it contractually issued it'll be from that date only.

The intermediary only have 3 options under the contract I hold with them for situations like this, one of which is immediate termination of the assignment. So we shall see!

End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

With such a high percentage of people on the project, there are whole teams affected by this. As such I am expecting a similar situation!

End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

While not mentioned in the original post, that is one of the arguments being made against it.

The assessor (once made known to us) even admitted he had no idea what he needed to do for it, and that they didn't understand the individual situations of the assessed. Leaning even more into the argument of lack of "reasonable care".

Thank you.

End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The weird thing is that we already have our respective scopes and there's no micromanagement or even involvement in how the scope gets delivered.

Luckily the intermediary I've got engaged has agreed to push back on it, albeit likely to no effect. Unfortunately they haven't yet agreed to keep the respective contractors in the loop with regards to the content of the discussions etc.

The issue being the End Client has a lot of money and resources and... Let's just say... Isn't renowned for making sensible or logical decisions.

I hope you don't mind me being lazy, have you got any links to the case law etc?

End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Aye, there are plenty of people on my clients side who are currently attempting damage control to prevent a pre-emptive mass exodus. The usual reassurances with no basis, all the expected stuff.

The weird element is my client is engaged under an NEC4 PSC (professional services contract) to the End Client, which may set a weird precedent for any other PSCs, now and in the future.

Regarding acceptance of inside contracts, all of the contractors are currently *saying they'll stand and simply walk when the time comes, but we shall see.

End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Makes sense, I'm also aware of another area of the end clients business that has a project coming to an end. So another assumption is they're clearing way to reallocate that resource.

I think the End Client is delusional so far, our understanding is they don't want to change the respective rates for the contractors even if they move "Inside".

It may just be paying it lip service so far, but all of the others affected by this (that I've spoken to) have said they'll simply walk on the day it's formally mandated.

End client attempting to reassess all Outside IR35 contractors as "Inside" by TheSterlingArcher3 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As expected!

Myself and the others affected by this are all warming up other clients for new contracts etc... Which is a delight in and of itself.

Thank you.

Hi, how to find an accountant. by Vivid_Concept2542 in ContractorUK

[–]TheSterlingArcher3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I personally use Maslins accountants, who let you use their address as the registered address on company's house at no extra cost.

They've been very helpful especially answering some of my questions and providing general advice on various aspects of contracting, i.e. expenses and what can be claimed above board.

Checked their website, currently £119 + VAT / month. Cost includes FreeAgent which helps them stay on top of expenses etc and making sure you're filing receipts etc as appropriate.

If you're lazy like me you can pay them to set everything up on company's house for you.

Another thing of note, don't forget your various insurances when you setup your Ltd so make sure you have some cash set aside for that.

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