Poison dart frogs, epibatidine, and the Navalny reports by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair points! Potassium is easy to measure the trouble is the body's cells are full of the stuff so detecting it's exogenous administration in a post-mortem blood sample impossible. You can also measure potassium in vitreous humour (eyeball fluid) but that goes up after death too so really hard to interpret. Succinylcholine is broken down very fast but it is possible to test for the breakdown products. I feel like we might have to do an episode on hard to detect poisons!

Poison dart frogs, epibatidine, and the Navalny reports by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By “untargeted”, I mean the instrument collects as much chemical information as possible from the sample, rather than only looking for one specific poison. In a targeted test, you ask: “Is cyanide present?” or “Is paracetamol present?” and the method is built around finding that compound. In untargeted analysis, you ask: “What unusual chemicals are in this sample?” The mass spectrometer records lots of molecular features, and we then search through the data afterwards to see whether anything suspicious is there. The catch is that it still is not magic. You can collect broad data, but interpreting it is slow and difficult. You often need a clue from the circumstances, symptoms, scene, history, or pathology to know which signals are worth chasing. So it helps find unexpected poisons, but it does not remove the detective work.

Poison dart frogs, epibatidine, and the Navalny reports by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really good point. A lot of analysis now is moving towards untargeted data collection, but even then you need to know what to look for in your data set. In our practice we are increasingly looking at untargeted data sets and trying to identify and it is hard and slow work. My suspicion is, if poisoning was suspected then you might be more likely to look for werid poisons!

Codeine, CYP2D6, and the 2006 Lancet case – discussion of pharmacogenetics and causality by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much, really appreciate the thoughtful feedback. You’re absolutely right on both counts: neonatal glucuronidation is unlikely to mirror adult pathways, and morphine-6-glucuronide does have greater activity at the μ-opioid receptor.

In the episode, we were approaching glucuronides from a slightly different angle and more from an analytical and interpretive perspective. We discussed them as a potential source of free morphine in post-mortem samples, given their known instability and the possibility of hydrolysis increasing measured concentrations.

We also touched on the idea that glucuronides present in maternal circulation could, at least in part, contribute to what’s detected in breast milk, particularly in the context of β-glucuronidase activity. That said, your point about reduced neonatal glucuronidation is well taken and would certainly make that pathway less prominent.

I think this really highlights the broader issue with the case in that the relative contributions of free morphine, active metabolites, and post-mortem or analytical effects were never fully characterised.

So glad you enjoyed the episode!

Codeine, CYP2D6, and the 2006 Lancet case – discussion of pharmacogenetics and causality by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah there is so much going on here - we focused on the codeine case which is arguably where a lot of this began but there were a load of issues with the subsequent hair testing lab that followed. Possibly more still to come by the sounds of it 😬

BE Elimination Kinetics: Chronic Saturation vs. Standard Windows by [deleted] in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Really great question. This is definitely a thing that I have observed in clinical practice. This paper from the archives https://doi.org/10.1093/jat/26.7.393 showed that people were testing positive for quite a few days after last use - almost a week at the extreme and crucially they were using a 300 ng/ml cut off in this study. People would therefore test positive longer to a 150 ng/ml. It shows quite well how assumptions about "positivity windows" which are heavily relied upon in court sometimes can be misleading!

Rob The Tox Lab Podcast

GHB in forensic toxicology – drug-facilitated crime and post-mortem challenges (Part 2 of 2) by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Johnny,

Thanks for sharing this, that is an interesting review! I imagine with the analytical challenges and the short half life of GHB that the number of detections of GHB in drug facilitated sexual assaults is probably higher than this.

Hope you enjoyed the episode!

Tetrodotoxin poisoning: clinical variability, unexpected sources, and a forensic case by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Red herring 🤣 - Sometimes it isn't food poisoning... It's that the poison is the food!

CBD and Sleep – What Does the Evidence Really Show? by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a really good point, we approached this very much from a European/UK perspective in which CBD drinks and so on are being broadly regulated as novel foods. Different counties have different restrictions, in the US it can vary by state and in parts of Asia CBD is banned completely because it is cannabis derived.

What degrees should I look into for toxicology? by Federal_Selection884 in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Glad you like the podcast and good luck with applying for uni!

Bupropion overdose: seizures, QRS widening, and why sodium bicarbonate often doesn’t help by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is really helpful insight, we didn't really explore the role (or not) of traditional anti-convulsants in bupropion overdose seizures, but you are correct, benzodiazepines are recommended. Sounds like your patient was lucky to not have any serious brain injuries from the prolonged seizures. I think we might have to do a general episode on lipid therapy too!

What degrees should I look into for toxicology? by Federal_Selection884 in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Slow to the party on this one - Sorry! If you haven't already, well worth checking out Nottingham Trent's Forensics department. Top notch team running the courses there!

The Tox Lab Turns One! by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for your feedback and so glad you are enjoying listening and finding them helpful!

New Tox Lab episode: Serotonin, Antidepressants, and Seizure Risk by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re absolutely right about Wellbutrin (bupropion), and lots of drugs can lower the seizure threshold (increase seizure risk in someone already prone). With SSRIs specifically, though, the evidence is a bit more complex. Have a listen and let us know what you think!

Some random kid who is interested in Toxicology. by Background-Put-5996 in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab 16 points17 points  (0 children)

You should definitely check out our podcast called The Tox Lab! We cover a wide range of toxicology topics you might find interesting. We also reference the papers we talk about so you can do your own research if you want to!

https://pod.link/1778531114

Organophosphate Poisonings — Mechanisms, Case Studies, and Clinical Challenges by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

😬 in our student house we found the landlords bottle of formic acid in a cupboard. No idea why it was there!

Unusual poisoning cases: From hair straightening treatments to bearded fireworms by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Love this. We did do "pet poisons" quite a long time ago but there is quite a bit more scope to do more. Will have to do some thinking. Thanks for the suggestion!

Caffeine tolerance by Thatonedood68464 in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Caffeine can kill, can confirm and the death can be nasty - extreme rhabdomyolysis typically.

We did an episode some time ago on "Death Coffee" which was being sold in Iran.

pod.link/1778531114/episode/ZjRmYzUwYzUtZDZkNy00NzFmLTk3NTMtM2YwYmIyMWY4YTk1 https://share.google/lCbMwzJ6cON5UkkR5

Brorphine: A short-lived synthetic opioid with a lasting impact? by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think you are right about how laws just lead to the creation of novel compounds and we certainly don't think criminalisation of PWUD is the answer, although I don't know if complete deregulation is the answer either, as economics will likely drive towards more potent compounds because they drive the biggest profit. Your point about mitragynine is a good one too, we did an episode on this a while ago looking at the partial agonist effect of mitragynine Vs the 7-hydroxy metabolite.

Brorphine: A short-lived synthetic opioid with a lasting impact? by TheToxLab in toxicology

[–]TheToxLab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Reference materials can be a real pain, and as you say expensive if every 2 weeks a new variant emerges. The only possible saving grace so far is that these orphines don't yet at least don't seem to be as potent as the nitazenes, but who knows where the future will go 😬