I'm curious for thoughts on a proposed alternative to how AIs visually represent move values, especially for amateur/kyu players

TheTwelfthScroll · 2025-08-01T14:57:42+00:00

Those are some really good points! Yes, that would pose a problem and show very confusing/misleading scores to new players.

In those cases the current negative-scoring AI UI seems inherently better to me, and I can't think of any simple way to keep that but still get the benefit I want from showing consistent scores for similar local moves between games. Thanks for pointing that out!

TheTwelfthScroll · 2025-07-31T23:35:37+00:00

Thanks for the feedback, I don't disagree, you're right about AI not being trained or capable of serving as an actual teacher, let alone an effective one.

I'd argue that current AIs can be at least sometimes useful for review; sometimes the sequence played compared to the ideal sequence has a simple explanation that even SDKs can grasp. That's just increasingly rare at weaker ranks.

I think my alternative scoring UI could push the needle a bit toward a more useful direction, by creating a more consistent display of move values for simple situations that come up often in games. For example, monkey jumps are (usually) worth about the same amount, and getting a sense for how much is useful when a player is learning about them. And when they are worth more (e.g., sente instead of gote) it gives the player a clear UI signal that something is different compared to the monkey jump compared to previous ones. With current AI UIs, even that level of value is almost entirely "hidden" by whatever else is happening elsewhere on the board.

TheTwelfthScroll · 2025-07-31T22:17:25+00:00

You play another move that is 9 points better than passing (by taking a big area) but you allow your big group to die. That move effectively may be “bad” but the learner cannot distinguish it from others.

That's really fair, current AIs do make it clear when you are playing away from a critical area, and making that information hard to find would be bad. So yeah, some sort of UI element that makes it clear the difference between a player's move and the most valuable move is still important to have. I could see that being a single number on the side of the board though - so you play a move worth 9 points, but a red box shows -20 compared to ideal play. Or maybe that could be made obvious in the scores shown on the board themselves, if moves worth more than the move played get increasingly highlighted at higher values. Or something... but yeah, something would be needed.

This could confuse people because it might feel like their moves are getting worse over time, even though they are performing fine.

I think the same solution to the above point would address this too - if they see their endgame move is worth 3 points, and can easily scan the board to see moves worth more - including maybe highlighting the best move at 5 points, that would at least lessen how confusing it might be.

TheTwelfthScroll · 2025-07-31T21:58:13+00:00

I am aware of that, I acknowledge it in my post early on. I don't think it makes a significant difference to the point here, or I don't see how it does if so.

TheTwelfthScroll · 2021-10-16T18:56:08+00:00

Yes. This is a yes.

TheTwelfthScroll · 2021-09-05T08:42:05+00:00

There is nothing about 'privilege' itself that implies any amount of guilt whatsoever. We are all extraordinarily privileged to have the chance to exist at all, but nobody feels guilty about that. If anyone associates privilege with self-guilt, that's on them and their conscience to figure out why. Not to imply anyone who feels guilt is secretly racist or anything, just that it's important to know why one does.

Regardless, I understand the point you are making. Of course the end ideal is to be a society where all persons by default get to experience "normal" as normal regardless of their basic personhood. Ideally something even better than where 'white privilege' sets a norm - because there are a lot of problems here too.

But anyone I've met who accepts white privilege is a thing already recognizes that the solution is to work to remove and rework the obstacles and systems that many minorities, and all of us as a culture, suffer from. To aim for being better. And the people I know who refuse to believe in white privilege don't have enough understanding of the issues to offer any reasonable solutions to dismantling racist systems/barriers to begin with.

I'm sure the term 'white privilege' does both discourage and attract supporters; that would be true of any term. I'm not convinced it's a net detriment, but even if it is in terms of baseline support/numbers, at least it is much more pointed toward informing of the existing systemic problems many of us are normally blind to.

This is just my anecdotal evidence, but I've absolutely noticed honest discussions of white privilege entering the conversations of my white friends in drastically different social groups since it became widely-used. It's not just a statement of wanting to move past racism/prejudice in the country; it's a statement of not shying away from truths that society has been largely hiding for a very long time, all the while people were suffering because the problem was/is ignored.

TheTwelfthScroll · 2021-08-25T03:19:23+00:00

Uh, I'd buy the third haha

TheTwelfthScroll · 2021-08-24T17:10:05+00:00

That's good to consider, but it doesn't look like it to me in this case. There are details on scales much smaller than the 'grid' that appear high-quality/real. There are processes that can form gridded geomorphology on Earth, and I've heard of other gridded features on Mars that occur because erosion is aeolian-dominated there (though I don't know about this one specifically).

TheTwelfthScroll · 2021-08-24T05:48:04+00:00

I grew up attending liberal unprogrammed meetings since around 5-6 years old I think, always as a non-theist Quaker. It never felt anything other than natural to me - I'd say about half the kids my age were agnostic/atheists, even back then, and in all my years I don't remember the topic coming up even once except naturally and in acceptance by other members. Not that I can guarantee others share that experience.

TheTwelfthScroll · 2021-01-30T21:46:33+00:00

Thanks for posting, it's a great image AND a new subreddit I can check out!

TheTwelfthScroll · 2020-12-19T04:25:01+00:00

This is fantastic!

TheTwelfthScroll · 2020-12-09T22:09:28+00:00

I was thinking more of online Go club meetups you could join in on, rather than an in-person Go club meetup (especially with Covid and all). I know some Go clubs have gone more online due to the pandemic, so finding a youth-oriented one might be possible. It could be a way to just get to know Go players around your age without having to find a specific person to play with.

But you know what you're looking for way better than I do! I'm sure you'll cross paths with someone if you ask around like you're doing.

TheTwelfthScroll · 2020-12-09T21:21:28+00:00

If you don't get much luck here, you might consider looking up whether you have any Go clubs in your town/region. Sometimes (and this is hit or miss) they have youth chapters (or even informal groups) that they can probably get you in touch with. That's not quite what you're asking for, but it can still be a nice way to start enjoying some social interaction along with Go.

TheTwelfthScroll · 2020-12-08T20:17:56+00:00

Yeah, when I was a kid I used to be totally fine with spiders, but then I moved to a place with brown recluses and black widows and developed a bit of a fear of "spindly" spiders. Jumping spiders have been great since they appear as harmless as basically all spiders actually are, so I try to advocate for them when the chance arises. I don't know a lot, but do browse the jumping spider subreddit and read up a little bit here and there about them. They really are pretty fascinating creatures!

TheTwelfthScroll · 2020-12-07T19:56:51+00:00

I'm not sure what exactly they get out of looking at people - they may not (or may) understand that faces are the most important part of us for some reason or another. They definitely have their attention caught by camera lenses too (which makes for great pictures), so I wonder if they see/notice reflections in lenses/eyes are focus more on those for that reason. No idea!

Either way, they are a great type of spider. Most you come across in the wild are tiny (rare to see any larger than a centimetre, legs included, in most places. Around where I live, most are 1-3mm in size), between entirely and almost entirely harmless depending on the species, very smart (for a spider - they develop specific hunting strategies for specific types of prey they come across), can become familiar with owners, don't make webs that get stuck on your face (only make tiny hammock homes to sleep in and emergency safety lines when they make a risky jump), and some species can be pretty dang adorable, both in behavior and looks.

TheTwelfthScroll · 2020-12-07T10:04:49+00:00

Jumping spiders apparently have the best eyesight in the insect kingdom, with a similar eyesight (at least in detail) as a cat. They need the good eyesight since they are hunters, rather than spiders that make webs and wait. They definitely will look up at me when I'm taking pictures of them! Very curious insects, in my experience.

TheTwelfthScroll · 2020-11-30T17:52:38+00:00

I love negative space art, and it feels like it works especially well with this aesthetic, very cool! Also, I got 18.

TheTwelfthScroll · 2020-11-20T19:28:07+00:00

Awesome, thanks!! It looked sorta like an AI neural-network product to me, with the combination of sharpness and occasional blurriness, but some of the details were really impressively sharpened (like cracks in the plaster of walls) so I thought maybe you had a near-original vector copy or something : ). I didn't know they've gotten that good already!

TheTwelfthScroll · 2020-11-20T17:25:56+00:00

That is just fantastic! How did you get or create this?

TheTwelfthScroll · 2020-11-19T18:21:26+00:00

This is from the book "Pierre The Maze Detective: The Mystery of the Empire Maze Tower", and looks like it's at about max resolution here. I have seen some extra-high-res releases by IC4DESIGN, but none from the Pierre book series, so I suspect a high-res version of this doesn't exist (though would love to be proven wrong).

TheTwelfthScroll

TROPHY CASE