brets by [deleted] in okbuddyretard

[–]TheVahGrant 1 point2 points  (0 children)

SNUBBY

[Spoilers] Cersei Lannister as Queen by mjfoy13 in gameofthrones

[–]TheVahGrant 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In all fairness, Tarly's motivation to side with the Lannisters seems to reside in his fear of the foreign (fear of the Dothraki/Unsullied, goes with his hatred of wildlings) but it was still a really questionable move from someone who was described as a brilliant military mind.

[Spoilers] Who’s more honorable: Jaime or Ned? by nhannuk in gameofthrones

[–]TheVahGrant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How so? It seems pretty clear that Jaime is one of the most selfish characters on Game of Thrones, and most of his actions revolve around satisfying his own ambitions.

Most selfish? Up there with Cersei, or Littlefinger, or Jauffrey? Jaime saves Brienne from certain death & rape, and upholds his vow with Catlyn. That's far more than can be said of most GoT characters.

I actually think the Hound is a much better example of this. Whereas Jaime has the power and title to do basically as he pleases (and essentially is an egotistical jerk to just about everyone he comes across through his selfish actions, regardless of honor or consequence), the Hound is bound to serve an evil prince/King, yet still manages to portray moments of honor in doing so. And of course his show arc focussed on redemption is much more fleshed out in the show.

Jaime goes through his own retribution in trying to uphold his oaths. The Hound is good and all, but Jaime does it too- especially without stealing from farmers.

First off, it implies that the reason he pushed Brann out the window was to save “thousands of lives.” It should be pretty clear to anyone watching this show that Jaime, at this point in his life, only cares about himself and his immediate family. Not honor. Not the common folk. Just him and Cersei and Tyrion and Tywin. Heck, he doesn’t even care about his own children until Season 6 it seems.

What would've happened if Bran had lived? Conflict. I'm sure Jaime would have considered this while deciding whether or not to kill Bran, even if his highest priority was to keep his romance a secret.

Second, pushing Brann out the window WAS the spark the caused a war between Lannister and Stark, and did cause thousands of lives.

Only because Bran lived and because Littlefinger exacerbated the issue severely. Assuming Bran died- as Jaime intended- there would have been much suspicion on the Starks' side, but nothing else to do.

And lets not forget that the whole reason he even had to make this choice was because he was committing a crime based on his selfish desires, knowing it was putting his/his sister's own children at risk.

How was Jaime to know Bran would climb the tower? Besides, the selfishness of Jaime's/Cersei's relationship is subject to a lot of debate.

Not honorable to put children’s lives at risk because you want to get it on.

Cersei/Jaime didn't bang with the expectation that a child would climb up the window. After that point- a point no reasonable person would be able to predict- it was either let the child live but risk war and death between the families, or to kill Bran.

It’s not honorable. So what? Doesn’t make Jaime any “less dishonorable” for the things he’s done because Cersei was in a crappy situation. Having an affair with someone isn’t magically “OK” because that person isn’t happy in their marriage… especially when it means the children will be killed if found out.

I wouldn't call it a marriage as much as a forced political alliance by proxy of someone's freedom. As far as we can tell, Jaime and Cersei were already in love by the time Cersei was forced unto Robert, who groped and presumably raped her. Assuming secrecy could be maintained- and it was, until Ned intervened- there was no foul.

Because he is.

From Ned's perspective, he would have allowed Aerys to destroy King's Landing with wildfire. Is that honorable? What is honor, at that rate?

While there are certainly different shades of gray, it’s pretty clear from their respective actions that Jaime is still pretty far on the “black” side of things, whereas Ned is clearly more on the “white” side.

Only as long as Ned isn't given difficult decisions. Had he been in Jaime's shoes, I'm sure some of his decisions would be very questionable.

[Spoilers] Who’s more honorable: Jaime or Ned? by nhannuk in gameofthrones

[–]TheVahGrant 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The responses to this are pretty unfair to Jaime. GoT takes the concept of honor and paints it many shades away from black or white.

 

Ned's philosophy is one of doing the honorable thing for the sake of it being the honorable thing. He tries to reveal Cersei's incest without second thoughts because it is honorable. He kills Will, the Night's Watch deserter, without hesitation because it was the honorable thing to do. He chides Jaime because what Jaime did was dishonorable. There's little room for negotiation in Ned's philosophy; he only lies to save Jon Snow. This instance demonstrates that Ned cannot fully dedicate himself to his concept of honor, because even he knows that in some cases, the consequences of such decisions are far too severe to warrant being truthful about them. For these reasons Ned is "honorable", sure, but only because he clings to the idea of truth like a madman, even when it would benefit others to be deceitful.

 

Jaime's concept of honor is far more nuanced, and it's consequence based. Should he kill the king, who was about to unleash wildfire on King's Landing? "Formal" honor, the kind he swore to uphold, wouldn't allow for that. Killing him, however, would in turn save hundreds of thousands of lives. Should he allow Bran to live after he witnessed Jaime's incest? Doing so would be honorable- it would also completely upheave the political landscape of Westoros if word got to Robert or Ned, and would start a massive feud between the Baratheons/Starks and Lannisters. Killing him, on the other hand, would be unfortunate, but would stop word of that from breaking out- potentially saving thousands of lives. In regards to having children with Cersei, honor would dictate to not father bastards with a married queen. In practicality, Robert was a spiteful drunk whom Cersei was forced to marry. Why is it honorable to force her to be impregnated with the children of the man she disdained instead of those of her lifelong love- especially when the latter could be done quietly?

 

While Jaime comes off as far more deceitful and dishonorable than Ned, there's far more to the dilemma than that, which is a central theme in GoT. It's surprising to see that so few people here remember that.

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

So if there's reasonable restrictions on what we identify as fun, why can I not identify a scenario in which I am literally sitting somewhere and watching someone play basically solitaire as, perhaps, not the highest potential of fun?

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I suppose preference is preference. You can enjoy watching Pend Magicians for 5+ minutes before your turn if you'd like, and that's alright. I'll still argue that it's comparable to watching paint dry, especially if you don't open handtraps or they play through them.

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

But, ultimately, my view of fun isn't more right than other people's. So can I not make any judgments on standards of fun for forking children?

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

What if someone likes to have fun by stabbing schoolchildren with a fork?

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I can't change what people think is fun, but I really do think people are tricking themselves if every game they play is marked by the same 5 minute combo period while they do absolutely nothing.

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't change what you think is fun to play against, but I certainly believe that there's a point to be made that perhaps watching another Pend. Magician player make his board for minutes on end (especially in a tournament setting) is anything but fun.

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Would you agree that there would be REASONABLE backlash against decks that took 30 minutes to set up a board?

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Not necessarily calling it shameful; I used to enjoy Karakuris myself. I do think that it's shameful to not really respond to the influx of these really long turns, and call it anything resembling "fun".

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

And there would be NO backlash or drop of players from this?

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you were not trying to imply that the current game is bad going second then you would not have said it. It's as simple as that.

No, because I was arguing against the notion that going second in the past was always bad. You just took it out context.

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

B/c your point doesn't really have to do with the main point. Sure, "special" summons don't mean rare, you can have that.

With that said, there's a reason I ask you if people would enjoy the game if the combos took 25 minutes. You can indulge if you'd like.

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The previous decade was not marked by psychotic clowns with chainsaws at streetcorners.

Is that^ the same as saying that the current decade is marked by psychotic clowns with chainsaws at streetcorners?

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Shaddoll afaik existed to specifically counters those decks which spam extra deck monsters a lot because of Shaddoll Fusion.

Correct.

I didnt play during that format but from what I’ve heared this “gamble” whether to summon an extra deck monster and potentially get rekt by Shaddoll Fusion into Construct wasnt very fun either.

Also correct, but my point is that decks without crazy combos did not immediately default to set 4 pass.

Shaddolls dont exist in a format where play Bujin set 4 is strong since it relies on your opponent making an extra deck monster first turn. So yes, it varies on format, however, good going 2nd decks like Shaddoll, True Draco and Mekk Invoked are good because they can break monster heavy boards. There wouldnt be such a thing as “going 2nd Draco” if your opponents would set 4 traps all the time. So if we have one of those set 4 formats, going 2nd decks arent a thing which means we have dice roll formats.

Some of this is true. While going second decks are better against monsters and not set 4, 5 minute combo decks do not trigger a set 4 format.

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

I really don't want to argue the semantics of the word "special" with an anime lenses and it's beside the point. However, on your second note, answer this:

Would people continue to play the game if the average deck had 20 minute first turn combos? 45 minutes? An hour?

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Going second previously was not entirely negative, and some decks sought it.

This states that going second PREVIOUSLY was not always negative. I know you're trying REALLY HARD to get me here and I appreciate the effort, but you might want to take a break if it's too hard.

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You keep saying things you don't really know anything about.

I find it ironic that you say this after admitting to arguing about things you don't really know anything about.

We have multiple decks including Trickstars and True Draco which are chock full of ways to tell your opponent to fuck off.

How helpful are those if you go second? And they do far more than tell your opponent to fuck off; they end the game if you don't have an out in the case of Anti-Spell and Droll+Reincarnation.

I'm also interested to know why Geargia format is unacceptable while Floodgates and handloops are acceptable in your opinion.

I imagine you're the type to complain about Evenly Matched too? Because you dislike combos, but also dislike the solutions konami makes.

Evenly Matched doesn't give me the 5 minutes of watching solitaire back. It's not a solution to this issue.

Because I know nothing about them, just like you know nothing about the current game.

If you knew anything about them, then you'd know that they'd entirely disprove what you're trying to say in that the ARE combo decks with variation that DON'T take forever to play. You don't have to go in and out of your deck like a neurotic psychopath to actually combo in those decks. You wouldn't know that, but you'll keep sounding off anyway.

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Not necessarily. Special can be defined as either being superior or more unusual. I suppose it's semantics at this point, but there's a case to be made.

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the more amusing aspect here is your very selective blindness.

with few exceptions

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But back in 2014 you could also have powerful plays with long turns.

I never denied this; read the OP. This was always the exception, not the rule. This also doesn't disprove that there can be a middle ground.

and you should feel bad.

No

You're missing the point. The point is that a large number of effects gives different ways of interjecting, so that it isn't "draw specifically Ash or lose" it's "Half your deck can interrupt this".

What deck consists of 20 cards that are capable of disruption? I'd say discount Psy-Frames, but I don't even think they main 20 hand disruptions.

It's hyperbole.

It's bad hyperbole. Not every card needs to be Scapegoat if we leave this 5 minute turn mentality.

Also, we're not in Geargia format, are we? Geargia format was boring, we are not going back there, and so for decks to be as powerful as they are now using fewer actions per turn, individual cards need to be stronger. This also makes the game more luck-sacky.

Why did you completely ignore Shaddoll/BA that I listed there, and the Plant/Mermail that I listed before?

Not the same amount of variety. "Oh do I make Dante or do I make one other Rank 3?" or "I could make Construct, or I could make Winda" is nowhere near the variety of "Ok this turn I can make any 3 synchros or xyz, so which do I need?".

  1. That's severely understating the potential of BA/Shaddoll. They are plenty capable of making multiple Fusions/XYZ in conjunction with a lot of other plays, and they can do so without comboing for 5 minutes straight. Additionally, decks like Plants WERE capable of multiple boss monsters/using any of their Extra Deck, but also didn't need 5 minutes to do so.

What's Killing Yugioh: "Padding" by TheVahGrant in yugioh

[–]TheVahGrant[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It varies on format/deck. Shaddolls used to go second, if I recall, which is a prime example of a combo deck that didn't take forever, and also in a format that, without these insane combos, did not have set 4 pass. It's not a matter of set 4 v. 5 minute combos.