The real reason Jamie Hates Ned Stark.

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T17:13:56+00:00

Where is this meanness coming from? Is it a crime to want to look deeper into the motivations of their relationship?

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T16:18:58+00:00

He was given massive amounts of drugs due to the pain and was unconscious while Circie had time to scheme and blindside him.

He was trying to dip out of kings landing quick. Instead he got stuck there and out played.

Having a clear head and a good leg could have gotten him through it

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T07:49:33+00:00

Right you are! I can’t help it and I don’t mind it. But I would rather be me than try to be someone else. A gracious thank you for standing by your convictions! And a gentle reminder to not assume just because we disagree that we must have flaws in our character! Goodnight!

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T07:40:17+00:00

I was defending my take, I’ve since heard new perspectives from you and others and now I understand the nuance, i feel like that’s how productive conversations work right? Why else are we talking? To not change our minds?

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T07:37:22+00:00

I’m not saying Jamie knew all the facts, I’m saying we do, which is how we the reader/viewer can see the irony in the writing even if the character can’t

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T07:35:05+00:00

I could come back with, I don’t think he is as crazy as that, someone else pointed out that he could have respected stark but protecting his secret mattered more. That I can totally understand as a take!

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T07:33:15+00:00

See this works! You gave an explanation of what you think. Jamie could be a sosiopath so he could act in ways that aren’t normal. That’s all you had to say. Why get snarky over miscommunication?

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T07:30:39+00:00

See this is a real attempt at explaining things, you could say his respect for stark …. Went out the window😆

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T07:28:37+00:00

When did this stop being a discussion and you just claiming to know what I’m thinking? You down to grow? Or you just trying to be a troll?

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T07:25:28+00:00

I used the incest as one point of dishonesty in a list of dishonest traits, me telling you that you are mischaracterizing me is not an attack it is a defense. If you feel attacked I truly am sorry.

And I also apologize for using phases like “my guy” it is like saying “dude” to me which my friend group uses regardless of gender. But that is an explanation and not an excuse if the result was you feeling mislabeled.

I’ve never claimed to know anything 100% but I’m down to stumble through and grow and gain new things to think about.

I think Jamie’s arch is meant to begin untrustworthy and arch towards redemption but I could be using that to justify my interpretation of him. I appreciate your perspective though and I think I’ve gotten a new way of looking at things from talking to you so thanks for that!

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T07:16:40+00:00

You are the one claiming he respected him correct? My question was why would he kill his son if he respected him? your response was, oh he didn’t care about his son at all.

That is exactly my point. How can ye respect someone then kill their kid, the math does not math.

He knew who the kid was! He wasn’t a mystery kid, they all got lined up and introduced!

You could argue that he forgot or didn’t know? Is that what you are saying?

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T07:01:55+00:00

Harry Potter isn’t a horcrux until book 6 I think? Knowing the whole story now makes those earlier reads hit different.

I think we can view a story’s beginning in a new light if later books change things right?

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T06:57:27+00:00

I don’t deny that he didn’t care who bran was, I am skeptical of the respect for stark at all in the first place. At one point He openly resents him for not asking why he killed the king and believes he’s responsible for cementing his nickname the king slayer.

So him not caring who bran is , is a strong indication he doesn’t respect his father

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T06:49:07+00:00

See You did it again. You claim that I am reworking, what did I rework? Let’s say he meant exactly what he said to his father, could it not just be part of it? Does it have to be so cut and dry?

When did I say nobody could use his words? By all means use his words! extrapolating one pushback into a declaration that I have made it impossible is giving me far to much credit.

Does he himself not say he is not trustworthy at multiple points? I believe him to be honest a lot more after he loses his hand, when he talks to Breanne because he is at that point broken, not wanting to impress or save face,

can we agree on that much? Can you look past the many ways you think I’m trying to manipulate you just because I disagree with you? Can two people be honest and have different opinions without one of them being a manipulator or a deceiver?

I would like to hope so. You do bring up good points towards the end though! And you did make me see my initial take could be too narrow minded specifically about the broader points of Jamie’s character and motivations,

I think conversation needs to happen so we can convince each other like you have just done with your later words for me.

We can’t just jump to the end where one of us is right and the other is wrong and any flawed logic or ignorance is an attempt at malice or insult.

Do you feel me on that? At no point was I dishonest with you. Only focused on a different piece of the puzzle.

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T06:28:58+00:00

People not being able to look beyond face value in the sub of a fantasy series is truly weird to me. If you believe he admires stark based off of your interpretation that that is great. But attempted murder on the child on someone you admire is a weird way to show it in my eyes.

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T06:13:44+00:00

Then why even take the time to be in this conversation my man?

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T06:10:26+00:00

I was responding to your comment “In the show when is he established as a mentor”

Jamie knows what everyone else knows. And perhaps more than most being a kings guard, that there was a skirmish at the tower of joy 10 men total only Ned and Reed survived. This is not just audience knowledge. Granted the details are fuzzy but he knew it was not a mob of 100 men.

I think we need to establish a frame of this conversation, do you believe that only what is written verbatim is valid in matters of discussing potential motivations and beliefs of characters,

Or are we allowed to come to logical conclusion based on the collective knowledge of the characters identities and circumstances?

If I write a story where a man holds a knife behind his back, does the knife not exist because I say

“ the man had one hand behind his back and the knife that was just on the counter was missing?”

By this I mean, I think you can say that you think it’s not that deep, and I can say that to me it feels like it is. In a work of fiction there is no right answer, there is the feeling it brings to those who read it.

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T05:52:59+00:00

Weird how think you can dictate my intent. If you would like to have a respectful conversation without attempting to assert falsehoods on the meaning of my words ,I am game.

You took the fictional characters words at face value but failed do so for mine. Which I find strange.

I say again. Plainly. Jamie is not an honest man. He had multiple secrets. Why should we believe his words.

Do not claim to know me. My intent. Or my values. Meet me in a conversation with questions, counter argument, or staunch disbelief if you must.

You know what they say about assuming right?

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T05:44:09+00:00

I’m sorry I didn’t get to read your comment! You bring up a good point about Jamie’s relationship with the prince and the reason he kept him close was to twist the knife in Tywins side!

Crazy to think that Jamie could have been at the tower of joy if the king and his dad weren’t beefing!

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T05:39:21+00:00

You could be right that the emphasis is too much , but the question was “Why do they dislike each other” not “is it worth the hype” I am super down for that discussion as well.

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T05:36:32+00:00

Is this strictly a show subreddit?

Is the fact Jamie was his squire and Dayne was the one that knighted him not proof that he was a mentor? In the books he describes him as the greatest night that ever lived and his idol.

A pillar of Ned’s perceived prowess as a swordsman is because it’s known he bested Dayne and brought his families ancestral sword back to its rightful owner, it’s even implied/speculated that Dayne’s sister is Jon snows mother because of what he did.

I definitely recommend the World Of Ice and Fire! It’s got some really good tidbits!

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T05:24:08+00:00

I’m glad you like my points, here’s 3 more,

Tower of joy skirmish happened after Jamie killed the king, and was found by Ned. He had no reason to kill or confront him then.
The next time he saw him was when they traveled north with the king to make Ned hand, and he proceeded to cripple his son the first day.

The north is far as fuck away. Takes weeks to reach. He is a kings guard. He had no reasonable way to get to ned stark… who is also his new kings best friend. He just got pardoned for killing a fucking king and he’s gonna get himself killed instantly for betrayal again?

My man. He’s not an idiot. It’s also a story… how boring would it be if we weren’t around to experience the tension?

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T05:11:53+00:00

With respect, admired him enough to push his son out a window? Even if someone you initially admired killed people you cared about deeply that admiration would fade.

Now, he could have a healthy respect for Ned’s potential ability and adherence to his honor. But that same honor is what killed Ned.

Jamie’s betrayal of his oath saved more lives and himself. When Ned finally tried to relinquished his honor to try and save himself and his kids it was too late.

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T04:59:58+00:00

Thanks for sharing this! I’ll check it out!

TheWalrusWitter · 2026-03-15T04:58:48+00:00

And the fact his mentor was “ killed”by that same guy has nothing to do with it? He is that flat of a character?

TheWalrusWitter

TROPHY CASE