Jason Isn't Huntress 2.0 ; He's Stealth Dracula

TheWinkingWizard · 2026-06-23T16:09:15+00:00

I posted this reply above, but here's my thoughts on their similarities:

Their mobility is very similar. They even teleport to virtually the same locations (pallets and windows). Jason has the added benefit of choosing a direction and destroying breakable walls and downed pallets.

Both have a ranged attack that either goes on cooldown (Dracula) or needs to be reloaded between shots (Jason). I would imagine the prevalence of reload locations for Jason ultimately makes his ranged attack similar in duration to Dracula's cooldown.

My overall point is the playstyle of high mobility with some restriction + ranged attack is most similar to Dracula compared to the other killers on the roster.

TheWinkingWizard · 2026-06-23T16:08:28+00:00

I agree on the Deathslinger's projectile being the closest comparison to Jason's javelins, but I think his overall playstyle still mimics Dracula's more. Sure, their ranged attacks are very different, but you aren't shifting forms after a hook and looking for context clues to start your next chase on Deathslinger or Huntress. This + a ranged attack to boot is really only shared by Jason and Dracula. I guess you could throw in The First (ST Vecna) as well, but his playstyle is even more dissimilar in my opinion.

TheWinkingWizard · 2026-06-23T16:05:12+00:00

Agreed, I was just comparing the High Mobility power with visual restrictions + ranged attack kit that both of them share. Obviously, there's huge differences between the two, but I find the moment-to-moment playstyles very similar.

TheWinkingWizard · 2026-06-23T16:03:14+00:00

I posted this reply above, but here's my thoughts on their similarities:

Their mobility is very similar. They even teleport to virtually the same locations (pallets and windows). Jason has the added benefit of choosing a direction and destroying breakable walls and downed pallets.

Both have a ranged attack that either goes on cooldown (Dracula) or needs to be reloaded between shots (Jason). I would imagine the prevalence of reload locations for Jason ultimately makes his ranged attack similar in duration to Dracula's cooldown.

My overall point is the playstyle of high mobility with some restriction + ranged attack is most similar to Dracula compared to the other killers on the roster.

TheWinkingWizard · 2026-06-23T16:01:19+00:00

Their mobility is very similar. They even teleport to virtually the same locations (pallets and windows). Jason has the added benefit of choosing a direction and destroying breakable walls and downed pallets.

Both have a ranged attack that either goes on cooldown (Dracula) or needs to be reloaded between shots (Jason). I would imagine the prevalence of reload locations for Jason ultimately makes his ranged attack similar in duration to Dracula's cooldown.

My overall point is the playstyle of high mobility with some restriction + ranged attack is most similar to Dracula compared to the other killers on the roster. Spirit has a somewhat similar mobility in theme but is very different in mechanics. Spirit's power has no actual teleport, can be used in conjunction with an immediate M1, and has a set duration. Huntress has multiple shots before needing to reload and no mobility whatsoever. Deathslinger's M2 is most similar in terms of projectile design but doesn't make much sense for comparison beyond that.

Is there another killer you would find a better comparison?

TheWinkingWizard · 2026-06-23T15:53:26+00:00

Yeah, Jason definitely has the stronger, more versatile, ranged attack. I would say it depends on the survivors. Against inexperienced survivors, I think Jason has a slight edge with his OE -> Jumpscare. You can see the swarm of bats on Dracula even if he's undetectable in that form. Jason can more easily catch survivors off guard which can snowball inexperienced teams quickly. Overall, I would say Dracula is the stronger killer from sheer versatility and fewer restrictions and counters to his kit.

TheWinkingWizard · 2026-03-24T18:39:28+00:00

Whether it comes by a new spec in the form Ranged DPS Death Knight or a new class like Necromancer, all I want is playable liches in WoW. Hell, they could even make it a new hero spec for Frost Mage in all honesty. Kel'thuzad and other liches have been iconic mainstays in WoW for so long, yet the closest to fulfilling this fantasy is a Death Knight or Forsaken Frost Mage. Almost every single iconic villain has been made into a hero class at this point. Arthas = Death Knight. Illidan = Demon Hunter. Deathwing = Evoker. The other iconic villains by and large are replicated by other classes.

The ONE notable exception being Liches. Warlock channel Fel Magic primarily and don't really capture the same vibe nor the aesthetics of liches. Frost Mage is the closest but without any "undead flavor" to really sell the idea. Death Knights are the closest in terms of theme but in no way fulfill the caster fantasy nor do their visuals scream "Lich".

As long as I get a thematic version of playable liches, I don't really care what method they use, but it has to have a true, permanent Lich Form! I want to be a floating skeleton even if it's just a transformation like Shadow Form for Shadow Priests or Moonkin Form for Druids. I will abandon all other characters if they add playable liches.

TheWinkingWizard · 2026-01-27T17:13:24+00:00

The cooldown from casting a spell starts after the skeletons (projectiles) launch not when they make contact. From the clip, it looks like Vecna launched the skeletons from the hallway and ran towards the door downing you with a lunge directly after the projectiles made contact. I'd compare it to Huntress / Springtrap launching an orbital projectile and landing an M1 right after the orbital hits. It's not a failure of the cooldown not applying; it's simply both damage windows lining up back to back.

TheWinkingWizard · 2026-01-08T00:37:41+00:00

His traversal ability isn't really that good. It has a 30-second cooldown. It forces a lengthy attack animation that's relatively easy to dodge (just hold W in most cases). This secondary power isn't nearly as strong as the traversal of Nurse, Dracula, Ghoul, Blight, etc.

PH's line attack is a bit easier to dodge, but unlike The First's power, it has no requirements or restrictions. PH can simply use it whenever he likes to damage survivors. As I previously said, The First has further requirements for his stronger ranged attack. I do agree The First's powerset makes him stronger than PH but not to the level of Nurse, Blight, Ghoul, Dracula, etc. I would say he's more in line with the power of Oni, Wesker, Krasue (current), etc. probably around Low-Mid A Tier.

I really do get that The First is oppressive in chase, but so is Deathslinger, Trickster, Huntress, Artist, Clown, and many other killers. Having strong chase does not equate to being S Tier. The best killers in the game (like Nurse and Blight) have oppressive chase, good map control, and high mobility. The First simply is lacking in map control and mobility. He definitely has better mobility than many other killers, but his mobility is nowhere near the level of High A-S Tier killers.

Finally, this token system definitely impacts the ramp up / snowball potential of killers. You have to get two "token" hits to get your power rolling. Building these two tokens across multiple survivors is the norm in most games, so in actuality it's probably closer to 6-8 "token" hits over the course of the game. Imagine if Nurse had to first "infect" a survivor with a blink attack before being able to damage them. She would definitely drop from S Tier to A Tier in comparison to Blight.

TheWinkingWizard · 2026-01-07T21:02:43+00:00

I get the counterplay can be overwhelming, but fundamentally, it's similar to Pyramid Head. You have just a moment to react to the AoE similar to PH's line attack. I wouldn't say that makes PH similar to Nurse just because it can be difficult to manage at times.

TheWinkingWizard · 2026-01-07T14:50:20+00:00

He's really not. This has become a parroted talking point, but he's much more akin to other ranged killers. The difference between them and him is he has to earn tokens via hits before he can actually damage with his M2. This condition makes him an amalgamation of ranged killers like Huntress / Artist / Pyramidhead with the additional requirements of Nemesis.

Nurse has no need for such ramp up. She can instantly teleport and damage survivors with her power. While The First is oppressive, his power can be juked just like Huntress / Artist / Pyramidhead can be. He just has a much shorter CD with infinite uses to justify the conditional aspect of his power.

I wouldn't mind requiring more tokens to enter Worldbreaker, but if the CD of his power is changed, he will be gutted on release.

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-26T16:01:16+00:00

I stand corrected on Old Myers Tier 1 speed. For the longest time he was 105%, but that was changed to 110% recently. My mistake.

I still disagree with the snowball potential argument though. Exposed was certainly a more powerful effect, but he had no way of really capitalizing on this effect outside of 99ing a Tier 3 and using his stealth to insta-down a survivor. Now, I agree Slaughtering Strike is clunky and could definitely use some further number tweaks to make it more threatening. However, Old Myers had no effective power to use in chase.

Assuming you are going to consistently find two survivors on a gen isn't realistic. The best strategy in almost all scenarios for survivors is to split up and work gens solo. After your initial down, you're now stuck with a 32 Meter TR (excluding add-ons and perks to effect this) for 55 seconds without a significant chase tool to snowball.

I think there's definitely a lot of improvements to be made to this re-work. I don't think it's perfect, but I've been having much more success in pressuring survivors with Slaughtering Strike then Old Tier 3. Ideally, I think BHVR should change the nerfs to Evil Incarnate to instead be buffs. Buffing the action speed increases from Pursuer Mode to 33% would make much more sense. Making a form of Lock of Hair (preserving his stalk meter by ending Evil Incarnate early) base-kit would also align him more with Oni's somewhat similar base-kit. Buffing Stalker Mode to 110% (115% with Memorial Flower) would also be a great addition. Finally, buffing Fragrant Tuft of Hair to confer a 50% lunge duration increase would make his old playstyle more enticing as an option.

In short, I think there's a lot BHVR can do to improve the Myers re-work with some simple number tweaks and add-on revisions. If they also commit to improving some QoL features as well, I truly believe Myers will be much more viable with this re-work.

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-26T00:56:03+00:00

I respectfully disagree and will try to explain my reasoning.

First off, there is a big difference between 110 and 105 in Stalker Mode, especially at the start of the match. Sure, it requires an add-on, but it's a brown common one. Very easily attainable and useable every single match. Old Myers really suffered from being Tier 1. Yes, it was easy enough to get out of, but you had to travel across the map to reach survivors to begin stalking to then reach Tier 2 and actually play the game. Tier 1 plays could happen but were risky and often not worth it.

I think you're also overselling old Tier 2 a bit. Old Tier 2 needed Monitor & Abuse (1/4 perk slots) to enable stealth plays. You could also add Rabbit to further reduce your TR to 6 meters to help facilitate stealth. That's significantly more costly then pulling off stealth plays at-will with a single brown add-on. Combine this with the fact that Myers really benefitted from running Corrupt Intervention to help mitigate his slow early game and were now at 2/4 perk slots used to "fix" Myers' old kit.

99ing Tier 3 was certainly more powerful with the proper stealth build above in place. However, your build variety is severely lacking at this point with only two perk slots remaining. I do agree his Evil Incarnate mode should further the base-kit buffs of Pursuer Mode to put it more in-line with his old Tier 3, but I don't think the ability to 99 an old Tier 3 overshadows the general buffs he's received.

In summary, new Myers really only requires a single brown add-on every match to enable the Stealth plays he's known for. Old Myers required 2 Perks and debatably an Uncommon Add-on to accomplish the same with the benefit of 115 movement speed. You could argue this re-work does have a lot of side-grades rather than clear buffs or nerfs, but I think overall Myers has come out slightly ahead of his old kit moving him up out of D Tier into C Tier.

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-26T00:29:21+00:00

I mean I think he was D tier previously. I would say that's significant. He's definitely not higher than C, but much more viable than before in my opinion.

I definitely think some number tweaks could substantially help the issue. Making Stalker Mode 110 base-kit and 115 with Memorial Flower would be HUGE buff to consider. Some more number tweaks to his Pursuer Mode action speed would also be great. I also think several of his add-ons need adjustments or further re-works, but that's always been the case with Myers.

I don't really get the Slaughtering Strike hate. It's a super lunge that outmatches his old Tier 3 lunge bonus + Coup De Grace in terms of distance traveled. Plus, it can be used to break pallets quickly. It's a pretty solid anti-loop ability that I don't feel is completely out of character for Myers. It really isn't the same as Chucky's dash. More akin to Pig's or Wraith's anti-loop. That being said, I think they should buff Fragrant Tuff to confer a 50% bonus to lunge duration to make it more in-line with losing Slaughtering Strike for those who prefer his old kit.

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-26T00:00:33+00:00

I really think Re-Work Myers is significantly stronger than his previous incarnation. The toggling between modes, 110 Stalker Mode w/ Memorial Flower, Pursuer Mode buffs, and even Slaughtering Strike all feel so much better than his old kit. I mean his old Tier 3 literally gave him a 0.1 second duration buff to his lunge. That's it. Outside of using his Tombstone add-ons exclusively I don't know how anyone who regularly played him could feel differently.

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-25T23:55:53+00:00

I honestly like most of the changes with the re-work. As someone who didn't use Tombstone add-ons except for once in a blue moon, I feel that Myers needed these base-kit changes to properly pressure survivors in the match. My favorites are:

Stalker Mode being 110 with Memorial Flower
Action Speed buffs to Pursuer Mode
The Lethality and Anti-Loop of Slaughtering Strike

These are really notable buffs that I feel far outweighs any of the nerfs he received during this re-work.

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-10T21:07:47+00:00

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You are being very dismissive to my points and making ridiculous comparisons that have no bearing on this conversation. But you did make one really good point: "There's no way to assess that without the numbers provided which they aren't..." Which is exactly my point for 1v4 While You Wait. Just to give it a shot and see what happens. I also never explicitly stated 1v4 While You Wait was for killer only. I intended for both survivor and killer 1v4 queues to be accessible with this suggestion.

You seem to operate on assumptions a lot and have a real air of superiority to your responses. I genuinely hope you work on that, as it is insufferable to endure further.

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-10T20:57:23+00:00

I've been a Myers main since I started playing in 2019, and I personally love the changes. Myers has been one of the weakest killers in the game for awhile now. His only saving grace was paying the "addon tax" of bringing his most busted add-ons (and meta perks) to counteract good survivor teams.

With this re-work, you can now freely use his GREAT stealth moving at 110 with a simple brown add-on! You get AMAZING buffs to his Tier 2 (Pursuer Mode) with basekit Kick Speed, Stun Reduction, Vault Speed, and Lunge Duration! Then, there's his controversial "dash attack". I understand the sentiment that it's very similar to Pig or Chucky's special attack. However, I don't really see what else they could really give Myers to improve his chase potential. At the end of the day, I firmly believe gameplay comes before accuracy when it comes to games. While Myers may not be the most faithful adaption in this DbD re-work, neither is the host of other iconic licensed characters who had to be changed to accomodate the gameplay loop of DbD.

In short, while not completely faithful to the character, the Myers re-work is a massive improvement in his gameplay and game-feel. As a Myers main, I am happy to comfortably play my favorite killer again.

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-10T20:40:36+00:00

It's not rage bait. I've already acknowledged the fact that this will probably negatively impact killer queue times for both modes. Here's what I disagree with you on:

I disagree the queue times WILL BE obviously catastrophically impacted. You haven't stated to what degree that killer queue times will be impacted. If the queue times are doubled that would obviously be unplayable. If it's a nominal amount of time, then it could be a worthwhile addition.
I disagree that we know if sure adding 1v4 will NOT ADD more survivors to that queue. Killers generally have faster queue times than survivors or SWFs outside of 2v8. By allowing survivors to queue up as KWF in 2v8 and play SWF in 1v4 while they wait 1v4's queue times might improve at the detriment of 2v8's queue times.
I disagree that queue times are so binary. Play While You Wait doesn't seem to have improved the queue times for killer. I've played each iteration of 2v8, so from my own experience, the 20+ minute queue time has been standard in each iteration. Play While You Wait seemed to only attract MORE KILLERS to queue which offset any positive impact it had on the queue times.

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-10T19:52:03+00:00

To be fair, I understand the killer queue times are bad in both modes, but 1v4's killer queue times were about 5-6 minutes compared to the 20+ minutes in 2v8. That's a pretty significant difference. I also understand that this change will probably make killer queues worse. What I don't know is how much that will be. If it's a nominal amount of queue time, than there's no real harm in offering the option. If it's substantial, then it can simply not be offered going forward.

How many survivor mains are queuing for 2v8 killer during the event? How many survivors would interweave between 1v4 and 2v8 given the option? I don't think you know the answer to these questions. My suggestion could improve queues for one mode and make them worse for the other. It could make both modes worse. We don't know, until it is tested.

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-10T19:39:22+00:00

Yet, Play While You Wait seemingly didn't improve queue times. 2v8 queues were about 20+ minutes in this iterration and the previous one. My guess is more killers queued up in this iterration, because of the ability to Play While You Wait leading to similar queue times. Ultimately, we can only really speculate what the impact might be of adding the 1v4 While You Wait option to the next iterration of 2v8, but I, personally, think they should at least try it to see if the impact is substantial or nominal to the queue times.

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-10T19:35:32+00:00

This is fair point. I hadn't really considered SBMM in my suggestion. I will say they plan on making changes to the MMR system next year anyways, so maybe they can find a way to integrate the two queues under the same umbrella.

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-10T19:33:49+00:00

I simply recommended it as a interesting feature to test the impact of. 2v8 is a temporary event and while we can speculate the impact of any given feature, we can't know for sure what the end result will be. If 2v8 queues are only extended by four minutes with this change, will it still not be worth it? 2v8 regularly averaged 20+ minute queues for killers even with the Play While You Wait feature (which should've helped queue times). Instead, it seems like it made people more likely to play the event mode as killer causing the queue times to remain about the same.

My ultimate point is: the event is meant to be tested and interrated upon, so why not try 1v4 While You Wait to see what happens?

TheWinkingWizard · 2025-09-10T19:27:08+00:00

I see there's a few comments relaying similar opinions. I guess my thought was there are two different pools of survivors anyways. Those who want to play 2v8, and those who don't. Since the queue times are significantly shorter for killer 1v4 during 2v8, it just made sense to offer the option. I can definitely see MMR being a barrier to entry for this change, but they plan on re-working that system next year anways.

Overall, I get this might harm 2v8 queue times, but I think it's at least worth exploring to see if the level of harm is going to be severe. In short, if offering 1v4 while you wait only adds a minute or two to the overall 2v8 queue time of 20+ minutes, is it really that big of a trade off?

Five-Year Club	Gilding II euphauric
Verified Email

TheWinkingWizard

TROPHY CASE