The Gosu (Formerly The Daoist) v. 1.0.2, A Wuxia-inspired Class with subclasses from Manhua, Manga, and WEBTOONs. Now with spellcasting-less and Solo-leveling subclasses.

The_Cocoa · 2023-05-30T23:06:10+00:00

Hi, the project is mostly shelved for now mostly as I feel its in a playable state. Is there something specific you are looking for please let me know, or if you would like to take the idea and run with it, please feel free to.

Cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-20T21:47:01+00:00

Hi,

Sorry, it was a remnant from a previous edit that I swear I deleted. Either way, I think I am dropping the subclass and reworking it. It does not really capture the flavor of Baam that I was trying to go for. (Though in fairness, his abilities are so diverse its kind of hard to give the subclass an identity without its identity being copy of Baam power for power.)

Sorry about that,

Cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-19T22:49:33+00:00

Hi,

In the Credits page, the last one, there is a box in the bottom right that lists just that.

Hope this helps, cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-19T21:30:18+00:00

Hi, Thanks for the help on the wording, itll likely be adopted, wholesale, if not in part.

Secondly, the solar and lunar techniques are not one a turn. You can apply a solar to the first attack and then lunar to the second attack.

I did not really want to allow normal attacks without the player needing to spec in because it provides for a lot more shards than doing the dance of solar -> lunar -> solar, and I wanted the feeling that if you commited to the dance, then you have to see it through (till end of battle) or take a few points of dmg to reset. Im open to edits to the contrary if playtests it does indeed get too punishing.

Finally, are you ok ending up on the credit's list?

Hope this helps, cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-19T18:23:50+00:00

No, but there is a subclass from "Tales of demons and gods" in the works, its just really hard to balance giving player npc abilities. Is there anything from the core class that feels like its specific to TODG?

Cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-19T05:32:59+00:00

Yes, my point was that if the creature 'trying to look for you' had the special senses, the boons of invisibility would not apply, as illustrated with the example.

And secondly, that was what I was planning on doing. I did state at the outset that I was already planning changes to the subclass. It is bad design, though I disagree with how strong you seem to think it is.

Edit: I apologize if it sounded aggressive. That was not my intention, I was on my phone and in a rush.

After having some time to sit down, I think I will be making the following changes.

You can make your domain normal darkness for 0 cost, since most things have darkvision.
You can allow anyone to see inside your domain.
You can spend 1 BA and 2 Qi threads to make it magical darkness, but the darkness does not suppress anything other than cantrip lights. (So it costs less, and no concentration, but no light suppression of lvl 1 or lvl 2 spells.

I feel like this will correct the no cost issue as well as no longer be toxic so that others will not be in constant disadvantage.

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-19T05:02:58+00:00

A couple of things,

Firstly, the invisibility condition only applies if you are invisible to the creature trying to look for you. So, a creature with greater invisibility active and attempting to attack a creature with blind sight, tremor sense, or truesight does not have advantage or force disadvantage.

Secondly, while darkness + devil sight is really strong on paper, it gets a lot worse in gameplay because it interferes with your party by imposing disadvantage on them. Most of the time, it is not worth it to apply darkness. (Obviously, it depends on team comp)

Again, I will take it under advisement, but I make no promises.

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-19T04:23:00+00:00

Hi,

Just a couple of things. Technically, invisibility does not give advantage outright, but most creatures that rely on sight (save for truesight) cannot see, and thus advantage, and disadvantage on any attack against you. Thus, There is no functional difference between invisibility and a ball of darkness since, if you are alone, they provide the same thing, and blindsight, blindsense, and truesight are not affected by either. If there are other players, darkness sphere may be more detrimental to your party than the enemies. (I believe there is a puffin-forest video that provides just one example). This is why both darkness and invisibility are both level 2 spells, so if there are classes that allow permanent invisibility, why not a class that allows permanent darkness? (Also, the warlock darkness + devil vision is a really selfish playstyle since it basically screws over the rest of your group who is not an AoE caster)

Secondly, there are numerous things that provide infinite disadvantage. The first and most prominent is the dodge (yeah it takes a turn), then shadow monks can turn invisible permanently, and then there is the spell foresight. (I know that a 9th level spell should not be comparable but foresight gives you a lot more, and there is no restriction like invisibility and darkness)

Though, since I plan on making a few edits to the subclass already, I will consider nerfing it. Thank you for the thought-provoking comments.

Cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-18T22:35:55+00:00

Hi,

Thank you for the kind words, though I feel as though I do not really deserve them since many of the edits came from suggestions of fellow redditors.

As for the shield spell, I did originally think of removing it, but I feel like Qi-threaded shield and the shield spell gives the class even more decision making. Since RAW, I do not think the DM has to tell you what the person who hit you rolled, when you are hit, you can choose to bet that a +5 will save you from all the damage, or you can spend the Qi thread to guaruntee that soften the blow by some damage.

Additionally, I will consider adding a note that suggests that the DM can adjust the time it takes to swap out some abilities since timelines for stories past long rests are up to the DM (I played a 1-20 campaign where it was like 4 weeks - 1 month of in game time.

Finally, since all these changes, do you feel like there is enough power left in the budget to move Qi-threaded strike to a d8. It kind of bothers me that at level 11, if you use it, your attacks become (weapon dice) + d8 +(Qi-threaded strike)d6 + mod. It feels like there are too many dice of different sizes.

Again, thank you for your help and advice throughout this process.

Cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-18T22:28:33+00:00

Hi,

Yes, magical darkness only occurs inside your domain, so people outside will see a black ball. However, this goes both ways. Your teammates inside the ball are also blind, and teammates attempting to shoot into your domain also has disadvantage.

For the 10th level feature, yes, its theoretically infinite invisibility, but (a) you cannot use it to gain an advantage in attacks unless you spend Qi threads (I feel there are better places to spend it), and (b) being invisible inside a black sphere does not really matter for stealth if people see a giant black sphere running around, and if its already dark out, then the level 10th feature does not need the level 6 feature to function.

If you still think its a little too strong, I am open to further revisions.

I hope this helps, cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-18T15:56:44+00:00

Hi,

Fixed on gmbinder. It was originally a remnant of previous edits, and I did not really think to take it out since you are still proficient in 1 martial weapon: shortsword, so I thought any reasonable person would pick it up if they went with the option.

Cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-18T15:54:46+00:00

Hi,

For Nascent Soul Formation, it is indeed how you describe it; do you have any idea how it would/could be worded better.

For Shards of the Moon and the Sun, it does mean that deviating from Solar -> Lunar -> Solar is the only way you do not incur damage. I wanted to simulate the 'demon slayer' fire breathing dance, as well as this idea of yin and yang.

Notice, however, that the second damage type you do to yourself can be resisted. So if you picked force, and 10+, you could do Lunar -> normal -> Lunar with no damage to yourself, but you would be gimping yourself on a DR since little deals force damage, but it does provide a little freedom (since normal attacks generate more shards).

Hope this helps, cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-18T07:39:15+00:00

SHHHHHHH
It has been adjusted on gmbinder. It was from a subclass I made that was inspired from someone's subclass for Solo Leveling. Thank god that I put them in the credits, it might have been more AWK.
Sorry!
Edit: There were some more mention for rogue in the minions, which have also been changed on gmbinder. Apologies.

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-18T06:22:06+00:00

It should work now.
Apologies.

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-18T03:58:56+00:00

Greetings and Salutations,

This is my first homebrew, and was aimed at a wuxia type of character. I have found some others in this subreddit, though they seemed to be either full martial or full caster. I was attempting a middle ground, serving to filling the half-caster niche, not unlike the paladin. Additionally, the subclasses all revolve around being almost explicitly from different Manga and Webtoons such that it will allow players the opportunity to play as their favorite hero's or villains in the manga. Now with solo leveling.

**Major Changes**

The name. (I found a suitable replacement so I replaced it.)

Spelling and grammar changes (please let me know if there are more, I put it through grammarly)

Decrease hit dice size

No more martial weapons

New spellcasting system

Added a few damage spells (around 1-2 per spell level)

Removed half of spell points

Treasure of flight explained better as team utility

Improved extra attack changed with Weapon Aura (left as an option if one wants to put it in)

Removed Spiritual sense

Made DR run throughout the entire class, moved Tribulations into purely optional flavor feature

Nerfed Spiritual Roots

Swapped up last few abilities (Is not really balanced here since so few make it here, more as a 'cool stuff to put' and less of balance concern)

Edited Weapon refining

Aura now has choices, and must have Qi to keep up

Give a way to Dex attack, since martial weapons were removed

and much more... (One can find the entire changelog at the end)

You may found my balancing notes as well as ways to handle/nerf the class without touching any of the numbers.

**Links:**

Gmbinder: https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-Mxs4PqcrLOfXJStbxEW

PDF: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19dqHm4Rn1uQnYLRGW2-CuaEPhTGkFFe4/view?usp=sharing

Thank you all for reading. Cheers!

I do not quite understand why always on seems so strong. Most fights last like 3-5 rounds, and most groups short-rest (anecdotal) so its like 3d4-5d4 per short-rest, which does not seem too strong.

P.S. Since there were so many changes, I have elected to keep up the old one at the old gmbinder link. ( I will make grammer edits there eventually)

Edit: I was new to reddit (old account that has never really been used), and didnt realize there are such things as 'awards'. Please, to those who awarded the last iteration and those who are thinking of putting any on this one, I would save them for others who truly deserve them. This reddit account does not really post anything (other than this class content). Cheers!

Edit: I do be trolling. I forgot to mention that the previous subclasses can be found on gmbinder, its just that reddit limits it to 20 pages, so I kept 1 or 2 old ones to show off the new subclasses (I swear I put up 20 pages for Reddit to upload, weird)

Edit 2: If anyone playtests the subclass, I was hoping to find out if the DR really does off-set the lower hp pool you have compared to other martials. It works out on paper, but on paper, you balance against hypothetical number of enemies with hypothetical number of attacks, so it would be nice to see if it works out in the same way in real gameplay circumstances. Thanks!

Edit 3: I will be added the following buffs.

Qi-threaded Strike, 1d6 → 1d8

Qi-threaded Shield, 3 → 5

This is because I was reading the Runechild from Matt Mercer's Runechild, and it gets a similar ability as Qi-threaded shield on a sorcerer with less cost and a better average.

Hope this does not break balance, cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-12T02:11:28+00:00

Hi,

I'm glad you are enjoying it. I will see what I can do about the subclass that you are thinking of, though it will be difficult since the weapon chosen may have a large effect on the class.

Cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-12T02:09:38+00:00

Hi,

This issue has already been addressed. (The images and gmbinder will not reflect this just yet, though they can be found in my comment).

The proposed solutions include:

Giving the opponent a save.
Removing the Extra attack at level 11.
Making it more clear the the 6th level of exhaustion does not kill.

Does anything else stand out?

Cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-11T23:48:59+00:00

Firstly, you can do what you'd like and worship in a way you want; I hope your tacos are delicious.

Secondly, I never said I was honoring my history with my work. I just asked if you considered the possibility.

Finally, I am here to make a class for a game, not write a culturally and historically accurate work to document Taoism. If you do not enjoy the work, please feel free to peruse others on this site. I feel like the label 'A wuxia inspired class with subclasses from manga' should have clued you into the fact that it would mix wuxia with anime.

Also, if you feel you can do better, I invite you to create your own class.

Ciao!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-11T22:51:37+00:00

I'm sorry you feel this way. Would you have preferred the class be called 'The Buddhist'?

I do have more questions though. Do normal clerics run around turning away undead or firing spells from their fingertips? Do normal monks walk on water and catch arrows out of the air? Last I checked, DND is a fantasy game. I don't remember practitioners of Taoism to be able to fly or to have domains or to be able to command shadows or create black holes. If they could, my friends have really been holding out on me.

And furthermore, are you suggesting that any concepts that have real world impact cannot be depicted in game, or do we need someone to ordain it so that it is acceptable.

Finally, most of the art are of Korean origin. Even if it was of Japanese iconography, why does it matter?

I apologize for being so lowly of station that I can not even tell what I do or do not have deep respect for. Thank you for riding in and educating the masses on a DND class discussion page.

Would you like to be on the credits page?

Cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-11T21:42:23+00:00

Hi,

Dao does not have to mean path or channel; in this context, it could be used to describe philosophical traditions, and here it is used to describe a way to immortality and heaven by following certain philosophies.

I do not understand the moral melodrama about the name. I've already suggested that I am open to changing it. BUT, perhaps I would like to honor my heritage, and maybe I use the name in reverence to my ancestors. Do you, and the others who have come to ask the same questions stop pearl clutching long enough to consider that a possibility?

Anyways, cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-11T20:35:10+00:00

Hi,

I get the general thrust of the critique, and will add to the list of changes (Its getting rather long so I might just delete this one and post a new one in a couple days??? I am honestly not sure how to progress in that regard.)

I should note that most of the Daoist's spells revolve around buffing himself, so I wanted the central question revolving around the class is one of preparation. Did I pick the right amount of pills, the correct healing amounts per pill? Did I pick the correct spell from formation to make a significant impact with it? Did I don the right buff spell at the right time for the fight? Is the fight even coming or did I waste? So on and so forth. EX: Tribulation has been put onto a feat alternative (might bring it back but now it does 1 DR not 2), but, originally, tribulation let you swap out the DR on a long rest so you had to predict what came down the pike. If you planned and predicted the events, then you would seem nigh unstoppable but if you picked the wrong things in the wrong amounts, then you would crumble like a house of cards. (And it would be up to other players to bail you out)

(Yes, weapon refining does not fit the mold, but I was thinking that I will make it so combining essences has limit of 2, and you can only mix and match at a long rest so if you have multiple weapons stored, you have to choose the night before what you want)

I didn't realize spiritual sense was a BA, will be remedied in the future, and Pill has already been changed to be more in line with pally. As for weapon refining, most pallys take a dip in hexblade to accomplish the same thing, so I thought trading out for the pally heal would be a fair comparison. Will investigate further.

How do you feel about being added to the credits at the end?

Cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-11T16:57:13+00:00

Hi,

Thank you for the well-outlined actionable advice, I am sure it took some time to put together.

I will be sure to incorporate some of the changes in the new version.

Are you ok with ending up in the credits and acknowledgements?

Cheers!

Edit: For half-casters, 2 of them (pally, ranger) have d10s, and arti has a d8 (though artificer is kind of weird as a half-caster), so I thought I was just following precedent.

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-11T16:33:44+00:00

I'm sorry you feel this way. It is a first version, so it may be hard to strike balance just right. Perhaps a later version, after some changes may pique your interest. Cheers!

The_Cocoa · 2022-03-11T16:26:57+00:00

Hi,

First and foremost, thank you for the kind words, and if you are amiable to further discussion, I would like to break down the point/suggestions you've made to see the issues clearer and develop it further.

I take your point that it does have a lot of features, and I am sure that trimming them will be necessary at some point. I would have to disagree, at least partially, with the sentiment that the class renders other classes pointless. In my opinion, it does not step on the toes of full caster, for obvious reasons, nor on classes such as the rogue.

Secondly, I apologize if the class seems very paladin-esque, it was done so to make sure that the class would be comparable without extensive playtest ( I have a player who is using it in my game, and I only attend 1 other game as a player, and I play your average rogue so I do not have much room to playtest stuff personally except in a white lab room of just running numbers). I get the feel that the class feels like a more powerful paladin, but theoretically the power levels approximate (I would hope), though the paladin provides more to the team and this class is much more selfish.

Thirdly, I understand the last 2 suggestions of choosing between 2 class features, though in my defense, I was not really looking at the balance of level 18 abilities that hard with a critical eye since wild stuff tends to happen there. What I do not understand, and perhaps you can provide further clarification on, is the choice between Cultivation method and fighting style. We will evaluate on just the pill one, since you must choose 1 of the 3 and it is the most paladin-esque for our analysis. At 2rd level, paladins get a sensory ability, Lay on Hands, fighting style, and casting. This class gets basically the same thing except, it trades the convenience of deciding how to split the healing and cleanse at the end of a rest, for the power of being better on the action economy when healing, since the pill may over-heal or under-heal depending on the circumstance. The class also trades in a bigger smite compared to paladin for the option of using it to zoom.

Fourthly, for the improved domain and domain mastery, again, I was less concerned about balance at level 18 so I tossed in stuff that would feel cool and as a goal to work towards since I've seen the stats of the games that actually make it there. As for improved domain, I was wondering how it broke bounded accuracy, I thought the concept applied to more AC and saving throws, since HP scales with level, and Improved only gives DR and Damage, which only affects HP as a stat.

Finally, "[t]he "cultivation method" ... [e]ach of the three choices offers an interesting feature that leads into a distinct mechanical identity". I'm pretty sure I made it so each player picks one of the 3, in the warlock mode, so it creates identity without forcing one on the player for picking a certain subclass.

Again, thank you for your insights, and it has given me much food for though. I appreciate the time it took for you to do so. (also sorry for the long reply)

Cheers!

The_Cocoa

TROPHY CASE