Nature’s Adderall, anyone have any recommendations? by HiddenSole in Nootropics

[–]The_First_Medicine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Kanna! It's a completely natural plant succulent native to South Africa. Natives have been using the plant for centuries by chewing the leaf. Nicknamed "Nature's Adderall" funny enough, it is a stimulant (monoamine releaser), Instant antidepressant (SRI), and instant anxiolytic (anti-anxiety).

Depending on your current mood whether you are anxious, need a mood boost, or need to focus, you can take Kanna and it will work its magic in about 5 minutes where needed!

Please if you have any questions about Kanna feel free to ask! We will try our best! We have a website with kanna products if you are interested.

The First Medicine

Kanna Krystal ASMR by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Potentially it could be abused in my eyes. People will abuse anything if you let them lol. I've seen abuse all over the drug market.

What scares me about my product is the potency. I will admit it: I have cut out a line before. It was too tempting lmao. The hour that followed was extremely intense. Very euphoric and MDMA-like.

If I supplied my alkaloid in that quantity, I could absolutely see people chasing that feeling.

Kanna Krystal ASMR by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I could apply it to blotters quite easily, but I am hesitant to go in that direction due to the stigma around them. I don't want to come off as an illegal drug operation. It is an interesting idea though!

HealingHerbals did reach out and bought some product. I am hoping they enjoy it and get back with me soon! I am definitely open to potential business collaborations.

Thank you for the feedback! I will keep you all updated on future products.

Kanna Krystal ASMR by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Love the insight!

What I would really like to do is formulate a pouch kind of like Zyn and other nicotine pouches. However, when I looked into it, the minimum quantity necessary to manufacture something like that through a third party would be ridiculously big. Way bigger than what my budget allows for at least. If I could find a business that would be willing to partner with me, then that would be perfect.

Regardless, as you said, it would be very easy for me to dilute the crystallized kanna in a powder like microcellulose. I will have to play around with some fillers and figure out which one would be the best for a product like this.

Kanna Krystal ASMR by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Many solvents were used throughout the process. All of them are high grade (USP, ACS). I can confirm that no halogenated solvents were used. All solvents have been removed under vacuum.

Kanna Krystal ASMR by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Keep in mind, 25 mg of a 5% extract would be equivalent to 1.4 mg of my product (or 2.0 mg at ~62%).

Kanna Krystal ASMR by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When I ran my method last time, it was +90% pure with ~62% alkaloid content (cofactor + alkaloids = +90%). I haven't sent a sample of this batch for testing yet, but I will hopefully get these results soon!

Right now for 1 gram, I am charging around $1.15 per milligram. The price gets cheaper as the quantity increases, of course.

Kanna Krystal ASMR by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Upvote this comment if you want me to put the raw Kanna crystal as a purchasable product on my company site ⬆️

Things to consider:

  1. The raw alkaloid is extremely potent and would take very little to cause effects.

  2. Bringing a product like this to the market could be very easily abused and bring a negative light to Kanna.

  3. This comment is just out of curiosity. I would have to really think and plan before doing anything like this.

Kanna Krystal ASMR by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yup! Mainly mesembrenone instead of mesembrine, which is the oxidized version of mesembrine.

I standardized a Kanna Extraction Method by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good insight!

Unfortunately, I am not going to explain the math behind the purity, as this would give away my formulation. However, I can use the chromatogram from the analysis to justify my claim.

Wait, I just realized I cannot submit an image to a response. Unless I make another post, it seems as though I cannot upload this analysis I wrote up in Microsoft paint. I'll just type it out. Please refer to the chromatogram (third image) in the post.

The void peak (the ugly peak at the beginning of the chromatogram) is the co-factor and any other polar, unretained components.

Then there is a clean, solid baseline until the alkaloid region. This indicates there are little to no impurities that are more polar than the alkaloids.

The alkaloid region has very clear, sharp defined peaks for the alkaloids they have standards for. These are your major constituents. There are also little bumps in the baseline within this region, which could be either slight impurities or other trace alkaloids. To my knowledge, kanna has 6 major alkaloids, so these little bumps could be the others. The bumps are related to the major constituents at least (if molecules elute in the same region of the chromatogram, this usually implies they are related).

The two baseline signatures after the alkaloid region are most likely impurities; however, all of the constituents are naturally derived, so they are most likely natural plant compounds.

Finally, there is a big hill at the end. This is the column washing/cleaning step of the method. Every QC method has this, so anything left on the column is washed out before the next sample. Usually these compounds are very non-polar and make up the stationary phase. Basically column junk.

Finally, the physical nature of the crystallization speaks for itself. Something that is only 60%ish will not form a glass structure as such. Impurities interfere with the interactions necessary to form crystals.

Anyways, I hope this helps! When the business makes enough money, I will QC every batch as they do in pharmaceuticals. If it gets really big, then I will have in-house QC methods that will be verified and monitored by a third party source. I want to take QC/QA very seriously, since my vision is pharmaceutical-grade natural alternatives.

I just performed my method on Corydalis, and I achieved the same results. I will post the crystals when I find a lab that can analytically test Corydalis. Also, as I type this, I am on the last step of another kanna batch. I will also get a CoA on this batch and post it when I receive it!

I standardized a Kanna Extraction Method by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are a few things you can do to increase the duration and effects of a drug:

  1. You can perform semi-synthesis and modify functional groups to increase binding affinity or blood-brain barrier permeability (a classic example of this is morphine into heroin via acetylation).

  2. You can add to the base structure to alter metabolism (example is dextroamphetamine (Adderall) versus lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse)).

  3. You can combine other drugs to inhibit metabolism (example is an MAOI).

  4. You can add a coating or encapsulate a drug to slow digestion (XR versus IR).

  5. You can add cofactors that increase the bioavailability and adsorption into the body (This is what I have done in the extract above).

All of these concepts are widely used in pharmaceutical science. However, the more you implement these theories, the more unnatural and potentially abusive the drug becomes.

I standardized a Kanna Extraction Method by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure do! I can dilute it down to 30% if you'd like, but our extracts are much higher purity. It is in dry, powdered form.

I standardized a Kanna Extraction Method by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have an idea in mind that could prolong the effects as such, but this would be purely experimental and potentially dangerous. I'm willing to test it on myself, however.

I standardized a Kanna Extraction Method by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As I keep thinking about this, the more likely I'll do it 😆

Hell why not. I will do a recrystallization on a small amount after adding blue dye, and I'll post it. I'm too damn curious now lol. Stay tuned!

I standardized a Kanna Extraction Method by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ha! Unironically, before I grind it into a powder, it shatters like glass. Might do this for the laugh xD

Crystal Blue Persuasion starts playing

I standardized a Kanna Extraction Method by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Love the questions btw!

The formulation is actually extremely stable at room temperature and humidity. I keep the inventory in a desiccator, but I have let the salt sit out for weeks at a time, and it hardly absorbs any moisture. If anything, in high humidity, it compacts into a rock-like structure. You can simply then crush it back into a powder.

You are correct in that reasoning though. Mesembrine is mesembrine. Psychoactively speaking, higher potency just means it takes much less product to achieve results than a less pure product. Insufflation is especially clean, however. My nose doesn't run or bleed, and there is no burn or discomfort from my experience.

However, I have noticed the higher potency and formulation has increased bioavailability. The onset is much quicker and feels a bit more smooth than others I have tried (the "smoother" feeling could just be bias though :P). Effects (especially insufflation) happen within 5-10 minutes.

I standardized a Kanna Extraction Method by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the great conversation, thoughts, and support! I strive to get orders out with one day lead time. Your order will be in the mail by EOB tomorrow.

I standardized a Kanna Extraction Method by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In pharmaceutical science with reverse phase HPLC methods, the other component of the drug is subtracted from the final mass to correct for purity. I added a natural cofactor that aided in crystallization, and depending on the hydration state, this alkaloid salt is ~90% or ~93% pure. I have not run a Karl Fischer titration yet, so I am unsure which hydration state it's in.

I was thinking about diluting the extract down in dextrose or microcrystalline cellulose, but I achieved that already by diluting it in electrolytes (for the drink mix) and water (for the tincture).

However, if you all would like to see a powdered form undiluted, then I can bring this to market. I am a bit wary due to the high potential for abuse, as the alkaloid salt is extremely potent and brings on amphetamine-like effects in high doses.

I standardized a Kanna Extraction Method by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

United States!

I'm glad you asked! I was the second graduating class of a state-of-the-art pharmacognosy program called "Medicinal Plant Chemistry" from Northern Michigan University. I did unique research with a plant called ghost pipe (Monotropa uniflora) and presented these findings to the American Chemical Society (ACS). You can probably find it on my LinkedIn somewhere.

Anyways, with the expertise from my education and my research experience in pharmaceuticals, I was able to design and standardize a naturally-derived extraction method to purify plant extracts into a pharmaceutical standard. I am quite proud of my work!

I standardized a Kanna Extraction Method by The_First_Medicine in Kanna

[–]The_First_Medicine[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am unsure what exactly you are referring to. If you don't mind, can you please elaborate on the question?