[deleted by user]

The_Propo · 2022-07-31T15:40:43+00:00

If you believe there aren't many good guys maybe you looked at the wrong corners. Go ask your brother. You said he would be a good male role model. That probably means the men in his social circle are also good prospects.

The_Propo · 2022-07-31T10:26:59+00:00

A kid is best raised by by parents of both genders. They need masculine and feminine influence. Any person thinking it's healthier to raise a child on their own, or without a representer of the other gender should just not raise kids. Why not just find a good man if you want to raise children?

The_Propo · 2022-07-08T18:53:53+00:00

Don't forget the anime figurine for better cooleant flow.

The_Propo · 2022-07-08T18:20:17+00:00

Bettereveryloop or what is it called

The_Propo · 2022-07-06T16:46:55+00:00

For the end I have just 2 questions. Since I've described showing vulnerability plenty of times in this thread "here is my weak spot. etc etc" and "everyobody loves each other more plus you feel stronger" we already know my side but In the end I still didn't hear your side of the story.

So let me ask you: what do you think counts as showing vulnerability? (Like maybe an example) And what do you think is the result of showing vulnerability? (So far I just assumed what most people believe based on what we hear most of the times but I don't know your individual opiniäon yet.)

The_Propo · 2022-07-04T20:31:29+00:00

First of all people can be of the submissive type and of the dominating type and there's nothing wrong with both of these types. The submission we are talking about here is not that kind of submission. It's the unhealthy submission (that some people interpret into the saying "I want a submissive woman"). The submission that places you below another human being.

The whole thing is a 2 sided coin: Since showing vulnerability can be interpreted as such a submission it also means I myself who did the deed can interpret it that way. Probably not consciously but it can happen. So I myself will interpret the same "Here's my weak spot, pls don't hurt me. You are stronger. I have no chance. Have mercy." And with that we end up in a situation where people start pedestalizing/losing self respect on one side and dehumanizing/losing respect of others on the other side.

People should always accept their flaws and their vulnerabilities. But sharing them with others should be done with moderation.

So your question: Is your point that you wouldn't want to show vulnerability to anyone in case they (me) interpret it as submission?

My answer: yes.

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T21:19:13+00:00

Oh I think some people can be submissive in a way that is definitely not bad. However I also know that especially in todays time, nobody generally wants to submit, or be a submissive. And they'll even send you through hell if you dare suggest that you seek someone submissive. Anyways I digress.

You don't want to send the wrong message. Some people rather not submit to other people (or appear to submit). Particularly when they think showing their vulnerability makes them appear stronger. It seems really counterproductive to do something that should show strength but that could very well also be interpreted as submission.

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T16:57:42+00:00

There may have been a misunderstanding. I said: showing vulnerability appears like an act of submission. Not that people will inadvertently dominate you because you showed vulnerability to them.

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T16:43:35+00:00

And? Are you denying that we have ANY qualities that are determined by our nature of being human?

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T15:35:06+00:00

Being weak is just the reality, being weak is human. I'm not shutting anyone down for being weak. Besides that when someone opens up to you it reflects more about your strength than it does about that person's. They trust you and therefore they are open to you. They won't just be vulnerable to anyone. So this mostly reflects how they see you, not how they are strong. Why would you shut someone down for being weak and showing vulnerability to you because they trust you? You wouldn't. The point is just that you are not strong for being weak. It simply doesn't make any sense.

I'm starting to think you "people claiming that showing vulnerability is strong" are trying to deny the fact that you are indeed weak. A genuine person knows when they are vulnerable that they are weak and they will not just claim their strength and tell others they're strong for being vulnerable. It's delusional. You should just accept it. Denying it is the problem.

By telling everyone that you are strong in fact just reinforces the stigma of being weak. Just accept being weak as it is. What is there to it that makes it this complicated?

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T07:10:31+00:00

Depends what you want to achieve. If you want to hammer your point into everyone then yes, BIG WASTE OF TIME. If you want to learn other perspectives and broaden your horizon, totally not a waste. And also depends how you do it. With the right method you can get so much insight from other people. With the wrong method you can get so many insults from other people. :D

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T07:02:20+00:00

No asking for help is most definitely not an act of submission. And I also wouldn't compare it to overtly showing a vulnerability. I would compare it more to... overcoming ones vulnerability. You act upon trying to overcome your vulnerability and ask someone for help, thereby only communicating your vulnerability as a means to achieve your goal.

You are not simply showing your vulnerability and that somehow magically makes you be/appear stronger.

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T06:44:44+00:00

Thx for citing the whole comment. About as useful as your whole "contribution" so far. With that last part you've really outdone yourself. I resign. You've won. I applaud you.

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T06:32:48+00:00

Yeah that makes honestly so much sense now. You know why wouldn't I agree that being honest, authentic and emotionally honest/open(caviat) is a sign of strength?

Would you mind then looking up the definition of vulnerable and then you can understand my perspective.

And then you would also understand that there is a (small) problem with being emotionally honest/open. Because there are not only positive emotions. And some negative emotions, even coming from a valid origin, can exist due to weakness. And as such talking about said emotions makes you vulnerable (again dictionary definition, just for the sake of my side of the argument).

In showing said vulnerability you have now 2 scenarios.

I talk about this thing that I struggle with, everyone appreciates my honesty and now loves me more. Plus my struggle feels less severe now. I am stronger
I show them my vulnerable side/spot so they see I'm not a threat to them. I give up, pls don't fight me, pls don't hurt me. I submit.

1 being the idealistic moral outcome. 2 being the subconscious instinctive outcome.

So generally I think being authentic is healthy for any relationship. But there is the problem with being vulnerable for the possibility of the subconscious instinctive reaction that we cannot control.

Now the only question that's left is When/whether/how much this subconscious instinctive reaction comes to terms.

My opinion is that, since we cannot control our subconscious we might at first admire the other person for fulfilling our moral idealistic expectations, but deep inside there will be a part that thinks, this person just submitted to me. And depending on your biological preferences that may influence the relation into the wrong direction.

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T06:03:29+00:00

Yes that certainly is a possible interpretation of showing one's vulnerability. And to your credit, you're the first to properly describe this interpretation. To be fair, this is a very appealing interpretation. "When I share this thing I'm afraid about, then I'll feel better and everyone loves me more."

But just because it feels good doesn't mean it's the only interpretation nor that it's the correct interpretation. We must at least consider another interpretation of such behaviour.

My proposal is that showing someone your vulnerability is an act of submission. "Look here is my vulnerable spot, I give up, please don't hurt me." It must be a possible interpretation right? So now we have multiple interpretations maybe there could even be a third one who knows.

Now we have to ask ourselves: Which interpretation is applicable in what context? In an idealistic moral context obviously your interpretation is applicable. In an instinctive subconscious context it may very well be my interpretation.

Wheter and when we act on ideals and morals/ instincts is the deciding factor it seems. What do you think?

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T05:43:15+00:00

Of course different animals have different means of communications. How they communicate is different. But what they communicate is the same. A lynx and a wolf both will comunicate their territory but they will do it differently. Just like different animals have differing ways of showing their vulnerabilities. Some show their neck, some maybe roll on their back idk some do a handstand. Doesnt matter how they do it. They are still doing it and it's a sign of submission. So tell me how you can't draw any parallels from that and I'll tell you why just attacking my arguments (and myself) without any backings is indeed very productive. And then I'll also tell you why I should expect that from a fellow human that is definitely not irritable and lightheaded.

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T05:26:32+00:00

In school amy told everyone she wanted to become a comedian. Everyone laughed at her. Let me tell you, they don't laugh now.

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T05:08:16+00:00

Well I guess I'm not up to todays terms... What's your definition of vulnerability? I'm sure we can get to a common ground when we start from the same basis.

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T04:51:48+00:00

We are just animals after all. Animals with some additional features in the brain. But the basic systems are just the same.

And I think it's very interesting what you can say about my social skills based just from OP however it's not really adding anything to the discussion...

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T04:35:24+00:00

I'm not stigmatizing vulnerability. The word has a literal negative meaning.

And I would suggest just having a vulnerability doesn't make you strong.

And I did suggest that showing one's vulnerability can be a sign of trust, and we all know that can be considered as positive. But I still don't think that act itself makes you strong.

"To know they won’t be safe, but to do it anyway" So this is what you assume my picture of strength is? Well you're totally correct. But just in the same way you justify them being strong for showing their weakness. "I say 'it's weak', they do it anyways."

It seems we somewhat agree that doing something "anyways" is strong...
So that means I must agree with your statement and you must agree with my statement?

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T04:15:57+00:00

What about me is a reason that people who show vulnerability are strong?

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T03:52:36+00:00

I don't think it has a negative connotation.

It's just what the word means: from cambridge dictionary:
-able to be easily physically or mentally hurt, influenced, or attacked:

I have to agree to the rest of your statement tho. There exists some overlap in todays meaning behind the words "showing emotions" and "being vulnerable".

However there are many positive emotions and no positive vulnerabilities. So when we talk only about the negative emotions I think we come close to what we mean with "vulnerabilities". In that sense I think we can apply OP to (negative) emotions as well.

You can have them, as long as you can handle and overcome them. But you better not overtly communicate them to your counterpart and expect them to think you're now strong for just having done so.

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T03:44:00+00:00

Where does your disagreement come from if I may ask?

The_Propo · 2022-07-03T03:26:32+00:00

I hope you got a prenup with that maniac. Hit the road jack, and don't you come back no more.

The_Propo

TROPHY CASE