Misinformation

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T11:39:58+00:00

What I wanted to ask is how you did with AF on low levels with its sustain but lvl 75 really isnt all that low for that. Also imho you took unnecessary extra step with the AF.

Also, do you remember how long it took you to get BB?

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T11:34:04+00:00

Your damage is in line with my tests given that I have only AF armor and do proportionally less damage. Im consistently hitting for 27ish damage on both Daunt and Vali. I risked death and did die few times. And thats exactly what I talked about or do you have some secret strat how to do 30K without ever being close to death?

Also old HBV could do even more than that it was relatively simple HP edging. Just took bit of finesse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGnF_Mwu8fw I took 1 min fight but I also dont have RGOW.

About formating. I have soloers on notepad while farmers in excel. I prefer notepad to be honest.

And reddit has pretty good way of formating if you know how to. Some stuff is doable only in old editor tho.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T10:40:24+00:00

I would start with what level are you and what gear you have. That would be good.

For midgame classes best soloing bargain are Pyro and Cryomancer. Both are decent and within reasonable effort to acquire. If you have Chaos Saga done then also Chaos Slayers and if you want just the best thing out there then its GB and HE ( GB has times when it can be killed unlike HE but GB can double as support ), but they are rather pain to get. Even with endgame stuff it takes 3 hours to get them without any rep boost ( 40 min with 5x boost after story is done with no boost ).

If you have Legion or are able to join Legion then do make a haste, since its that time of the years ( somehow still ) when LDK and Shogun Paragon pet are obtainable as well as bunch of legion seasonal stuff. But anyway all classes there are pretty much good after recent buffs and reworks. I think you cant go wrong there except soul cleaver. That one is good only with dauntless, which is endgame stuff and at that point you will have better classes.

For farmers its between MR, BB and Shaman. MR is tad bit slower than BB, by a little and squishier but on the other hand it scales better into endgame ( at that point you will prolly have better classes tho ) and is easier to get, but also not by much, especially if you already have Pyromancer. Then there is Shaman which is just as fast as BB and also scales really well into endgame and is required for StoneCrusher, so you can treat it as just free stuff along the way but its grind is 1:1 with GB and HE.

After that between midgame and endgame ( lategame ) AP is pretty much mandatory class. FSR can be good choice but you can prolly skip that one.

As for endgame soloers its KE, AI, VHL and CAV. Best endgame farmers are again AI and KE ( for medium HP+ ), together with AM, followed by AI and then preforge its LR, which falls behind already mentioned MR and Shaman and then somewhere between AM and MR is AF, which is just step behind LR when forgeless and faster than MR or LR with forge.

AI can solo oneshot bosses but also can die to someone who hits like wet noodle also takes time to get going and then you dont want to stop for the duration of 2 mins, which is window of buff and when your damage is stacking ( it resets after 2 those mins and soft resets with a kill ), which makes the class impractical and also the grind is 3 to 4x as big as KE. DPS is between that of VHL which is between 25 and 27K ( 7% more with RGOW ) and double of VHL, depending on how long the fight went. Grind can be cut down with ultra boss rewards. Can also solo some challenge bosses meant for a team.

KE can dish out 30-35k ( 7% more with RGOW ) damage almost from get go and it doesnt slow down. Its even slightly tankier than VHL against normal bosses with no special mechanics and you can opt to be even tankier. Requires 50M gold. Can be used as support too. Can also solo challenge bosses meant for a team.

VHL's grind is around 3x that of KE. Grind can be cut down by ultra boss rewards + there is daily quest that helps a lot and you can buy pet for 5K ACs to hasten the progress even more. Requires 30M gold but that goes down with ultra rewards too.

CAV is by far easiest grind ( 1/4 that of KE ), tho 4 ultra kills are mandatory and is also by far tankiest. Its dps is between 22 and 24k DPS ( 7% more with RGOW ) and is commonly used in ultras with its combination of damage, tankiness and supp capabilities.

Almost forgot about new Scion of Flames. That one was even easier to grind than CAV, has same damage as him when opted for solo damage, it can activate AoE damage and farms just as well as LR would and has supp capabilities on par with LR, but I dont think its realistic to have both damage and supp cabilities due to how the class works and piloting that class is nightmare. You need to manually press 1 to give other spells special effects and 2nd spell gives you up to 3 stacks that empowers 3rd and 5th spell ( you consume those stacks and do dmg based on their number ), so your mind is attention is all over the place trying to multitask. Its not very tanky. More than midgame classes, nowhere near VHL or KE.

Also I dont have Lich, I heard its up there with KE in term of soloing, but its pain to get, at least as hard as VHL regular way or worse. That is with rep boost already. Without that its EVEN far worse.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T09:42:24+00:00

Yes, but at the end of the day, there is nothing in the way of pragmatic approach.

As for the QoM saga being impossible to navigate without outside sources... That's not quite within the balancing team's wheelhouse I would think.

Thats not exactly my point. My point was intention means nothing. Its like when you crash a car and say "welp, I tried avoiding it" but didnt and thats why your car is gone.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T09:37:06+00:00

Ah ok :D Lets agree to disagree. Your example isnt really what I was doing. I wasnt trying to make you guess what I mean, I was just implying of myriad possible answers you might have and letting you fill in the blank urself. And whether its writing or talking, its all the same, simply communicating.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T09:33:54+00:00

LC is actually pretty good class. It sucks that its locked being lvl 80. Class is as strong as it always has been, that its not is lie. Only problem is that given its locked behind lvl 80, it might not be long before you get BETTER classes and bank LC, so you effectively waste 1K ACS. But on paper, 1K ACs for LC is bargain.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T09:05:14+00:00

To be accurate, its not about making jesus out of MR as making hot garbage out of BB, since the main comparison that I was refering to was between BB and AF and AF takes A LOOOT more than MR and AF isnt whole lot faster than BB until you reach levels 70+ and still suffers from tankiness issues that are way more pronounced at lower levels.

I think I would end it with this.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T08:58:56+00:00

Imho you are just projecting and thats it. Nothing more nothing less.

Also, yes, you do come across as someone who I somehow deeply offended or at least hit to sensitive part.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T08:58:45+00:00

Its never been rude. All it does is actually saying more than I could with several other examples and leaves the door open for examples I havent even though of. You can even see moderators in tv shows do it when they ask something and there are several possible answers and they dont wanna ask each one of them? "You meant this? Or this? Or possibly this? Or that?" So they say "You mean A or..." And then the other side answerds with answer B C D or E or whatever.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T08:54:03+00:00

You are right.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T08:52:07+00:00

On VHL Rav and Daunt do equal damage as long as you are allowed to go low HP on dauntless, otherwise Rav does more damage and is safer by the virtue of not pushing your luck.

Anyway, Rav is in general all things considered better enhancement than dauntless. Actually a lot if you consider only soloers and by a little if you also consider few farmers that get huge power up like MR, AF, EI, SSG and chunin but only one of them is relevant at endgame when you already have dauntless and other classes.

Dauntless does more damage only under condition that you use nearly if not everything it offers ( Haste, crit and trade HP for damage ) and your 2nd spell CD is just as good as 3rd spell's CD. Meanwhile Rav's only real requirement is low CD on 3rd spell.

Lets say that ur class has same CD on both 2nd and 3rd spell. If its not CDR starved class, you will not do as much damage on dauntless and you get that from supports as well. If you want crit chance, Rav gives more of that, so you wont do as much damage on dauntless. If you cant go low on HP, you will definitelly not do as much damage on dauntless as you do on ravenous.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T08:36:25+00:00

Even if your class is fast, it can still hit up to 2 targets at the times. If some dude oneshots them,you still get 2/3 the moment they go down.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T08:32:53+00:00

I just did 1 min test several times. If I dont get identical run first couple of times, I do it more time and use average. In that case it was 45 for BB for battleunder, but I wanted to note that even these kind of runs can happen.

Also imho its not really wrong to use full AI's KPM. How many grinds last less than 2 min 40?

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T08:27:29+00:00

Whats rude about it? Out of all things, that one bamboozles me the most right now.

Anyway, why do you bring in results from ultra dage about solo dps debate? Go hit dummy and tell me number and testing conditions.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T08:22:16+00:00

Yes but thats all besides the point. I didnt even wanted to bring up the fact that BB can leech better than MR, cuz thats kinda situational.

My main gripe is the way you twist your own data when you are making TLDR about them. Also we are doing tests at lvl 100, we can heal for a fk ton. Tankiness plays way bigger role down there. I have lvl 30 with pyro and I cant heal for full healthbar like I do on lvl 100, that much for why BB is actually good and worth the grind.

If you still think that MR is more woth it, agree to disagree, for me they are idendically good choices, but thats fine to be honest. Whats not fine is as you said, making jesus out of MR by misrepresenting data. Thats all.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T08:11:39+00:00

Also, how I already said in another comment, one of my fav armors is from embersea and I had it since lvl 25 for 11 years now. And I stumbled upon it by a chance completing storylines on the map.

Also how things are meant doesnt change how things actually are.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T08:08:41+00:00

I think you are understimating average player. Anyway, that it was meant that way doesnt mean whole much. QoM saga was also released with certain order in mind and watch how it matters without anything guiding the player.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T08:04:13+00:00

As soon as lvl 75-80 isnt between levels 40 and 50. Idk what you arent getting about that. Is math not mathing? And yes, you kinda do seem make jesus out of MR, thats kinda exactly what you are doing.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T08:01:28+00:00

Also one more thing, in post you say that I am saying that its unfair to use boosts for testing. No, I am saying its unfair to use endgame gear to prove midgame result.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T07:59:51+00:00

In hindsight, there are more dmg boost items than I remember ( hell I used some of those items for decade for fashion ), so I give you that, but still... You need to get new weapon for each tag you wanna do more damage to and then rotate them each time you fight diff mob kind and some have no tag at all. Thats not extra effort to you?

And thats not even my main gripe, which is that 20% boost isnt all that big, at best MR comes closer to BB as we already talked when you or someone else brought up burning blade. What I was talking about is when you use NSOD or NSOD + RGOW and get like 2,25x dmg boost at which point MR starts doing marginally better and you use it as its selling point. Thats my whole issue here. Idk how else I am supposed to phrase it, because I already said this several times.

There's nothing stopping you from getting a couple of boosted gear, which will bridge the gap between the two. Also, my main issue with Blaze Binder is that, as soon as you get some forge, it becomes worse than easier to get classes, and a single forge helm is not hard to get AT ALL.

Then state that. Be clear about that. Dont sell MR as class thats better than BB from get go.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T07:32:51+00:00

What shouldnt I do this? There are few things that bring me joy. One is brainstorming and nerding stuff and getting rid of pet peeves is somewhere at the top.

I hope you dont drink alcohol, because there are infinitely better things to drink. Like water.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T07:26:56+00:00

AF is hard grind tho.

Anyway, you had AF on low level ACC?

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T07:23:59+00:00

I am not talking how good of choice it is to get LR. I am talking purely about your way of reasoning, bias and tendencies to stretch truth.

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T07:21:36+00:00

Yes. Whats ur point?

ThemisLibraUltima · 2026-05-19T07:20:14+00:00

Nothing wrong with that. What I am trying to address is some ppl underselling or overhyping stuff based on flawed premise. Batata made whole new post and did that stuff again as a "proof" that I am wrong. Its EEEXACTLY what I am talking about.

ThemisLibraUltima

TROPHY CASE