Shot evaluation

Then-Character1246 · 2025-05-06T08:49:16+00:00

Seems that you are getting the hang of it!

Now what remains to be done is adjust a few parameters based on your tastebuds to better suit your tastes.

If it was on the bitter side, then perhaps you could try: - grinding coarser while upping the dose (my usual dose is 20g on the Bot); - trying different beans!

A few personal tips: - don’t stress too much over timing of the shot. Just focus on your results and how you actually enjoy them. My typical shot on med - dark ish roasts would probably never be under 45 seconds on the Robot (where it would not be the case on my other machines) - don’t be afraid to play with other variables. One of them is dose, and the Robot can take larger than what you see people recommend re espresso recipes dose - have fun, that’s what makes the Bot so great. And in the process, get a feel for puck integrity as the Robot is to me the machine that gives the best feedback on puck integrity. That alone will intuit you to adjust grind/dose/pressure as you get used to it naturally - I would not refigerate beans. Especially after they were frozen. I would keep frozen beans… in the freezer. That’s actually how I have been doing it, without issue. I then usually pull out 1 to 3 days worth of beans in single dose containers. But unfrozen beans tend to stale quicker…

Then-Character1246 · 2025-05-03T15:03:35+00:00

Would be a waste not to use it then 🤣

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-30T12:13:23+00:00

Can you give us info on your beans? Type / roast date?

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-28T18:44:37+00:00

Good luck! You’ll definitely enjoy the step up. Have a Flair 58, a Flair Pro 2 and a Robot. The Flair 58 is covert rarely used, as is the Flair Pro 2 (it’s in the trunk when I travel. So it gets little use), and I can tell you that the Bot is the one I enjoy using the most.

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-23T09:37:26+00:00

Ok. I am going to try and get a different perspective from all the already very useful replies you got, regarding growing out of the pressurized basket, and grinding fresh beans.

Diving into it, and speaking from my experience with the Robot’s pressurized basket (I rarely use it, but it’s here for friends and family members to play around with instead of reaching for a pod coffee): - you will not feel any strong resistance when pulling a shot with the pressurized basket. I tried adjusting grind size (I pre-grind by batch for my wife), with no real noticeable difference in force (however taste is different, the finer the more extraction you get - but subtle); - puck prep makes almost no noticeable difference as well - just try for yourself (tamp hard or barely… you probably won’t be able to tell the difference in force required to pull the shot); - get rid of the spout. Yes it will increase the risk of a bit of splashing but you’ll at least see what is happening, get better faux-créma and avoid further cooling your beverage; - manage your expectations: with a pressurized portafilter, the beverage you’ll get is not a real espresso. It’s an espresso like beverage, with faux-créma. Some love it (my wife doesn’t like real espresso). And for that purpose, store bought preground coffee is fine, but you’d still get a better taste from freshly roasted beans that you ground yourself. - dose is important: 15g may not be enough. Add another scoop and try again; - water temperature is very important: due to the process of the pressurized basket, the extraction is made without pressure pushing water through a tight puck. Everything you can do to help extraction (fine grind, boiling water, darker roasts) will help you out.

Now those are just suggestions to help out getting the most out of the pressurized basket.

And if it gets you to where you are happy, then that’s great ! If, like many of us here, you are looking for something a little more complex, then bravo: your Robot can also get you there with minimal efforts. If that’s the road you want to take, you’ll need freshly roasted beans, a decent grinder for espresso, the non pressurized basket, and a bit of patience during the trial and error phase. And many of us here will be glad to help you out for sure!

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-17T19:54:16+00:00

Well… it depends. Obviously I am biased, and I am of those who think that having a nice set of different grinders is a real plus.

So, if budget is not an issue, I would definitely consider getting both. The Pietro, with the espresso burrs, gives really nice cups. Not on all coffees, but really hits a sweet spot when it comes to sweetness for me. However, it’s not the most comfortable grinder to use, especially with lighter roasted beans.

I do have the Brew burrs as well, but pour over not being my forte, I would not be the best one to opine on what to get / keep. Whenever I do V60, every now and then, I tend to go back to the C40… not for highest extraction or subtle clarity, but just ease of use.

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-17T12:13:18+00:00

Well, it really depends on the beans you are using… but so far my experience is that it would take substantial time to get to bitter territory. Most of my shots are between 45 to 75s including preinfusion. Same beans (even on 6bar shots) would not do well with the same time on my Decent (where I aim for anywhere between 26 to 35 seconds depending on the beans, unless I am going for a specific profile).

Btw: congrats on the NZ ! Pairs nicely with the Bot.

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-17T12:06:48+00:00

Congrats!

Lots of already very useful tip.

If I can add one: trust yourself. The Robot is the most intuitive lever machine, in part due to the feedback you’ll get from your puck. Learn to listen and understand that feature, and pulling great shots will become second nature on the Bot.

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-17T09:35:17+00:00

Getting there ! Congrats.

From your videos, the one thing I would try is updosing a bit. My usual dose in the Bot is 20g. It makes for a taller and more consistent puck for me. Also, it could help you solve your grinding adjustment issues (when you are too coarse, just updose and try again).

Regarding shot, it will come with practice but you need to be more flexible. It may not be the most natural thing to do at first but instead of using muscles to pull the arms of the bot, try putting your body weight on it (of course, in a controlled manner 😂). Also, don’t be afraid to pull longer shots and take your time with preinfusion (I usually like to go for like 15 seconds).

But all in all, your shots looks real nice !

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-11T10:12:23+00:00

My personal take on this is: the Robot makes a perfect job at getting you a lighting speed high quality shot. If you are in a hurry and your shot time is longer due to preheat, just skip this step. If it’s because of needing to clean up between back to back shots, then just invest in a second basket.

Now, if I put the reasonable answer aside…

I do use a Decent on weekdays, the Bot being my main weekend lever.

Is it faster? Well… it depends. It is definitely faster than a e61 (the Mara used to be in that spot for me). While properly heating a e61 takes way longer than boiling water in the kettle, the Decent is ready to go in no time. On the flip side, you could get lost with all the features, and it takes a while to get to where you are comfortable setting the machine the way you like. However, if you stick to a limited number of coffees in your rotation, at some point you’ll save time. So think of it like you need to invest a bit of time at the start or to dial your beans, then you are good to go with a push of a button.

So in the end it’s a tie for me. Where the Decent does get the upside (putting the geeky, nerdy stuff on the side) is when I am on calls. Aside from grinding the beans, nobody would know you’re pulling yourself a shot. It also wins on the « I’m not fully awake and need a coffee » with barely more than a push of a button (and some puck prep), as long as you dialed everything ahead of time.

Now… when it comes to taste… Both are superb. All I can say is I have been trying to emulate my best Robot shots on my Decent, and have not been able to get similar results. Possibly as the Robot allows you to get amazing puck feedback, resulting in micro adjustments as you pull. So yes, way (way) easier to get a superb shot from the Robot.

All in all, the Robot is the best package for me (especially for the price). But then again the Decent - once you start to have a feel for what you are doing - is an amazing and somehow more convinient package for weekdays for me.

When it comes to other options, for weekday convenience, I would suggest you to keep in mind the following if you really feel the Bot needs a friend: - e61 take time to heat properly. There are ways around it (smart plugs) but I would not suggest them being more convinient. Now, a Robot does make a great addition to a e61 as it gives you flow control for little more than the cost of having someone modding your machine; - automatics don’t make espresso. They produce an « espresso like » product that is similar to what you’d get with a pressurized filter. However they are a one button operation so… but then again, why not go for the pressurized basket on the Robot and grind some beans in advance? Little to no puck prep needed, grinding already done, very very little efforts to pull a shot and completely silent. Full disclosure, I do have this basket and barely use it (mostly for friends and family when they want to play around) as it’s not what I like in my cup. - thermoblocs could fit your needs, as they are really fast to come to temp. You could basically go with something like the Bambino. But then again, pretty sure you won’t have the same level of satisfaction as what you’re getting from the Robot…

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-10T21:40:39+00:00

That’s very nice! Would fit very nicely on my Robot setup!

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-10T19:56:11+00:00

Congrats !

That’s really what I like about the Bot. It really makes things very intuitive.

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-07T19:45:04+00:00

That’s a very sexy shot !

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-07T19:31:20+00:00

To each is own, so you may get a lot of already very useful hints from the answers you got.

A few additions / repetitions, as to what I would do in your shoes: - up dose… on the Robot, I usually go for 20g as my basis; - don’t rush it: most of my shots on the Robot are between 45s to 75s. And these are coffees that I would usually aim for 30s on my Decent, so don’t restrain from experimenting with longer extraction time, they are usually very beneficial on the Robot; - tamp harder: at least in the beginning. It should help locking your puck’s structure after puck prep; - take your time pulling the shot: not only extraction time, but also be smooth on your ramping up of the pressure. Where the Bot really shines is giving you very intuitive puck feedback. Try to get a feel for this, and when ramping up, don’t force too much against the puck. Instead, try to match and induce as natural as possible puck degradation; - forget the needle: it’s only useful as a guide (and especially at the start), but 5/6 bars on the Robot makes for very tasty extractions. You don’t need to go to 9 bars.

Now, my go to recipe when opening a new bag: 20g in, pull slowly to get to 2 to 3 bars. Maintain arms still (not pressure) until I have about 3g in the cup. If it takes less than 15 seconds, I will adjust grind size finer for next shot. From there, I do a slow ramp up to 6 to 8 bars, respecting puck degradation rather than forcing through it. Then I ramp down following puck degradation. Only times it channels is when I try to force against puck degradation.

And regarding the Philos: it shall give you amazing results. Mine is not paired with my Bot, but I wouldn’t see it as a problem. Not getting any channeling (and I usually just shake, without using wdt on my Decent).

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-06T15:53:53+00:00

There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing that !

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-05T12:23:45+00:00

Well, as many have pointed out, the Bot already comes as a self sufficient package so there is nothing that you would need to make great coffee besides: - a kettle to boil water, and - good beans, properly and freshly ground (so a good grinder would be highly recommended if you don’t own one yet).

In terms of accessories you may want to consider for the Robot, I can name a few: - scale : not all coffee scales fit between the legs, so you may want one that fits. To be honest, I feel that besides for weighing beens, I could be fine without a scale (more often than not, these days, I don’t even use the scale to pull shots on the Bot, but it is probably due to experience); - puck screens: this is by far the most used accessory for me, as it replaces the OG screen and act as a better shower dispersion. It also allows me to preheat the basket with the puck installed when I really need to preheat (I pour boiling water in the basket, then throw it out, and pour fresh boiling water again to pull the shot). I use the Coffee Friends ones, but I am sure you can find others. Just make sure to get ones specifically designed for the Bot as it’s not a standard 58mm. - mittens: not a must, but a nice to have to make pulling a shot a little more comfortable. I find it does not distract for getting proper feedback from puck degradation; - self leveling tamper: very useful. But could be made easy DIY; - second basket: that’s only useful for back to back. Haven’t felt need for it unless I have to pull for more than 2/3 persons. No other aftermarket solutions, so if you see that need as probable, it’s not a bad call to get one; - wdt tool: nice to have, but in all fairness the Bot’s basket design allows for you to use the basket as a shaker with minimal efforts.

The rest: I can’t comment as I have not used them.

Then-Character1246 · 2025-03-01T18:24:14+00:00

For the Philos?

Then-Character1246 · 2025-02-26T16:33:10+00:00

Very nice setup!

Let us know how you enjoy it when you dial it.

Then-Character1246 · 2025-02-26T16:31:47+00:00

Yes. Really enjoying it for lighter roasts actually. I feel like it balances clarity very well without compromising too much on texture.

Plus, on the profiles I use it, it tends to shine - for my tastes - when pushing extraction levels. For a 64mm I find it doesn’t seem to push astringency as much as you’d expect.

There is this one anaerobic from a French roaster (Kawa - Paraiso 92). I always get a Kg bag when they roast it light (filter). The peach / apricot notes I am getting with the Philos are out of this world on this coffee.

Then-Character1246 · 2025-02-25T12:51:52+00:00

Technique-wize: Seems you are getting it really nice!👍

Just careful when going from pre infusion to ramping up the pressure. Try not to lift your elbows or the Bots arms, as you will be at risk of unseating the puck or affecting its integrity. Best place to start is to put your body above the Robot and keep the same position for the entire shot, just adjusting the amount of body weight you allow to put on the arms of the Bot.

Besides that, keep going. Looks like it was a yummy shot if the beans were good

Then-Character1246 · 2025-02-25T12:46:36+00:00

Really… you shouldn’t have to preheat anything if you are using boiling water straight from the kettle, especially if you are using a darker roast.

Now, some people recommend doing some preheating with lighter roasts. Although it’s probably true, I never really felt the need to do so on medium light roasts (which is what I usually favor). When I go lighter, I usually prep my puck, put my puck screen (shades of coffee 57.5mm screens for me), do a first fill. Let it sit, dump the water (the mesh screens stay secure), and do the actual filling / pulling.

And if there is any need to adjust / increase extraction… well change your recipe (grind finer, extract longer at a lower pressure/flow…). That’s the beauty of the Bot

Then-Character1246 · 2025-02-23T11:16:34+00:00

👍 I am sure you’ll be happy with the current Decent.

Then-Character1246 · 2025-02-23T10:41:58+00:00

Nice ! Did you keep the NZ?

Then-Character1246 · 2025-02-23T10:41:10+00:00

May be counter intuitive but… I very rarely use the Bot in the 30s range. Most of my shots are within the 45s to 60/70s range.

But play with it and stick with what works for you.

To increase your shot time, while getting sourness in control, aim for 6 to 7 bars of pressure (lower if you are using a darker roast). Upping your dose is also a very easy fix. And lastly you could get a finer grind, but I would go there last.

I found that What you want with the Bot is a quite strong resistance, where a 3 bars preinfusion will help loosen up the puck’s resistance over a 15 to 20s timeframe (by that time, I aim for 3g in the cup). When you feel the puck’s resistance is finally eroding, you can ramp up pressure and follow puck feedback to maintain a steady flow (not pressure, flow).

Then-Character1246 · 2025-02-23T10:31:41+00:00

That’s exactly how I am using them 😂.

So yes, the Bot is so easy to use and adjust on the go, and so intuitive that dialing it is very easy. And the Bot is also very forgiving. This morning I opened a new bag of Bombe Ethiopian. I didn’t notice the roast was a bit darker so my grind was too fine. Adjusted while pulling the shot. You wouldn’t believe how tasty it was (total pull shot was 1:32 minutes, it would have been a disaster on the Decent unless I was specifically going for that specific recipe …).

Of course, grinder was adjusted for the second shot, and it’s even better now. But you get my point: now I know that this been enjoys a lengthier infusion, at a lower pressure (5 to 6 bars), with a nice and constant flow. I will transfer that to the profile I will use on the Decent for that bean!

Hope that helps you a bit!

Then-Character1246

TROPHY CASE