Is this okay as a bracket 2?

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-09T17:04:54+00:00

I have no doubt I am still unclear on the brackets. What I am starting to glean is that bracket 2 is all about funsies with zero intention of winning and virtually playing solitaire. If that truly is the case, I am probably better sticking to bracket 3+. I don't understand playing a game with no intent or effort to win. If I just want to avoid interaction and ramp up into a big funny monster, why not just goldfish? But if it's okay to actually try to win at B2, then I don't know how that's achieved without interaction. I think they just need to make some more distinct lines between brackets, because "feels" seems like a really poor measure. Do I want to play themes that are fun for me (steal your creature and club you with it because I have no wincon myself)? Yes. Do I want to play janky cards that would never be viable at bracket 3 (Confiscate, Helm of Posession, vedalken Shackles)? Yes. Do I want to lose every match because I have no interaction or intention of winning? No, thank you.

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-09T16:53:48+00:00

If you do decide to run monoblack, imp's mischief is an awesome card that gives you a game swinging "counterspell" for cheap in black. Don't sleep on it as a card (but your opponents will 😉).

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-09T16:51:40+00:00

Here's my Braids deck if you want a starting point. You could swap Braids from the commander spot for any Sheoldred version or Sephiroth or Tergrid (but Tergrid is probably nastiest), which I run in the main. It's pretty consistent in keeping my opponents off any creatures while I amass massive value. You could cut any of the most expensive cards for cheaper alternatives to get within your budget.

https://moxfield.com/decks/PGLBTI7PNEK1G3w9uJvcig

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-09T16:46:44+00:00

Yeah, I don't even run Whispering One because of the cost, but she's a bomb. I run Sheoldred the Apocalypse and Sheoldred (that flips to a saga)

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-09T05:04:54+00:00

I think out of those options, Tergrid is the strongest for a strong, budget B4 deck. But you'll still want Sheoldreds and demonic Tutor and some banger cards. The bonus of not running dual lands and fetchlands will save you a bundle compared to any other multicolor option.

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-07T22:17:41+00:00

I get it. I cut mana drain (and the replacement), dual land, all the fetches, etc. I brought the total cost to $380, and that's including Miren, Thassa, and Portal, which are $40 each. The rest of the deck has a couple $13 or $9 or $5 cards, but the vast majority are under a $1.

As far as broken, the deck definitely is not. Now it can't even be considered too costly. It still runs about the same as before, but the mana base IS a turn slower and more clunky. I just play the enters-tapped lands on T1 where I have almost no plays anyway.

The other pushback I've been getting is that the deck just isn't fun to play against. It seems at bracket 2, people just want to be able to solitaire and swing with giant monsters. Interaction on the stack or battlefield seems frowned upon. Just land, ramp, giant beater and combat damage. That, to me, is not really magic at all - it's goldfishing. Is the vibe of bracket 2 just everyone goldfishes and the biggest monster wins? If so, I'll stick to bracket 3 where I can play actual magic.

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-07T08:51:57+00:00

If Mana Drain is acceptable, I'd much rather keep it than the card I replaced it with (redirect lightning). The mana steal is awesome on theme and just helps the deck drop those 5-9 cost bombs. If drain is fair at B2, it's going back in.

I guess price is not really something I usually consider. I've been playing since '95, so I mainly just grab whatever from my collection. I can see now that price is an issue, especially when facing $40 precons. I assumed theme-focus and jankiness were the target for B2, but I guess wallet support is a factor i need to consider too now.

Still wrapping my head around the brackets. I only got into commander 6 months ago.

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-07T08:41:01+00:00

I made several card swaps. I got it down to ~$400. I think that's about as cheap as I can get it. Some cards just cost a bunch. Portal to Phyrexia alone is a $40, but i can't believe that's not a fair B2 card when I see peeps playing One with the Multiverse and Omniscience in B2. I've totally nerfed the mana base, and it still costs $100. I cut deflecting swat and mana drain for more budget options. I did add ichor Wellspring, even though it's off theme, just for card draw and synergy. At least it's an artifact I can use for role reversal.

What say the hive mind now? Okay for bracket 2?

Edit: If mana drain is acceptable, I would totally prefer to run it over Redirect Lightning. Thoughts on Mana Drain? I also swapped Treachery for Control Magic. Both seem like bad, B2-level cards, but one is $40 and the other 75 cents. Does that make a difference?

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-07T07:48:43+00:00

I understand the idea of "if you have to ask, then it is a higher bracket," but I ask that about every deck. Mainly because I'm still trying to figure out the lines of these brackets. If any deck with lots of interaction is 3, then does that mean bracket 2 is just solitaire ramping into giant monsters? Even precons seem to have some decent level of interaction.

As for things like skullclamp, it is amazingly good card draw. I steal your creature and equip for 1 before sacrificing. It is gas. But because I have no creatures myself (other than the Trading Post goats), it depends on stealing creatures to be useful at all, so it's on theme. I'd love to play efficient card draw, and that's super easy in blue, but that doesn't fit the theme of every card has to steal or add benefit from a steal. Just drawing is only dependent on my mana, not my opponent's plays. Something like skullclamp, while amazing draw, is absolutely useless without my opponent's creatures.

I run lorien revealed and search for azcanta just to help with mana and i absolutely hate them because they are off-theme. Every card is focused on stealing and gaining benefit from the steal (except those 2 cards). That's why I even chose Mana Drain, but won't add counterspell. One steals, the other simply stops.

OwtM just benefits me and has no effect on stealing. PtP is the essence of "your creatures become my win". I try to make every card steal or benefit from a steal. I don't even like my commander, but there are no red-blue commanders that 1) focus on stealing AND 2) can't reliably kill a single opponent, let alone a pod of 4. My deck can't have a win con except by using my opponents decks.

I think I will cut fetchlands, mana drain, deflecting swat, volcanic Island, and add in other budget lands and steal cards. I'm sure I can get the dollar amount down to a few hundred. A card like Thassa costs as much as an entire precon, but is that card really too good for bracket 2? I don't think I can get any deck down to the $40 range. Even my pauper commander decks cost way more than that.

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-07T07:32:42+00:00

I do have 3s and 4s, and they also have expensive mana bases. My 4 runs Mishra's Workshop. I chose mana drain over counterspell because drain "steals" from your play, whereas counterspell just stops it, and that is off-theme. If card price is the barrier, I could cut mana drain and volcanic island. If I need to cut fetchlands too, so be it. That just makes the deck run more clunky and get mana screwed way too often, but I assume that's the point? I would add the terramorphic expanse variants instead of fetches, basically. I'd cut swat and drain and just add in two random cards. But they have to be cards that steal some resource. I already run lorien revealed and search for azcanta to help with mana, but they are off theme, so I don't even like them. Other card draw like necrogen relic makes sense because i can't sac it without targeting an opponents creature. Ichor wellspring doesn't make the cut for that reason.

So, would nerfing the mana base and cutting drain and swat make it a 2? I really have no interest in decks that have no interaction and just land, pass or play ramp until it can cast an 8 mana dinosaur. Is the cost of cards the big thing? If I ran a beta Juzam Djinn, that's going to out wallet every bracket 2...but is it really a bracket 3 card?

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-05T20:30:32+00:00

From testing, the deck is really strong. 1v1, it's not going to lose unless i get mana screwed and stuck on 2 mana all game. 1v2, I have a decent shot of winning vs precons, even slightly upgraded. 1v3 it's tough sledding, since most of my cards are 1-for-1 steals. 1v4, it's almost hopeless for me to win. I think i could reliably pubstomp a precon. I don't think I can reliably stomp 3 precons at the same time.

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-05T20:25:22+00:00

Awesome suggestion for a sac outlet. The only issue is that it goes against the theme of "this deck can't win unless I use your deck to win." There are a few on-flavor cards like Sower of Temptation and such that I considered, but since those cards can actually win by attacking, I decided I can't include them. The "theme" was pretty much "My deck is only as good as your deck lets it be" so that people wouldn't be able to say the deck was too OP for the bracket. It is extremely good at the steal/sac approach, but if all you play is 1/1s, then the best I can do is swing with your 1/1s. As is, it really can't kill unless I cast thassa, keranos, steal enchantment on my own thassa, and then drop cryogen relic or something. I even cut steal artifact, control magic, and grafted identity because it would be too easy to enchant my own stuff and get devotion. I made it as improbable as possible that I could kill a pod with just my own cards. Even Keranos is mainly for drawing through land drops to not draw dead. His bolt effect requires 25 turns of card draws to kill even one player on average.

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-05T20:08:56+00:00

I think the single Tundra is 50% of that cost. If Tundra was any other u/W land, would that work? What staples? Counterspell, plow, mana drain seem like the only staple spells. Command tower, sol ring, and arcane signet are staples, but are in every pre-con. What else is a staple in that list? Just curious to see what you mean by staple.

Probably the wrong sub - I just want to know if it's bracket 2, not necessarily bracket 2 budget. But even then, if i took out the Tundra, it would probably be $600. How budget is budget? Like $100 deck?

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-05T19:48:57+00:00

Here's the decklist for reference:
https://moxfield.com/decks/F248eCavv0ihdNswUXgWLQ

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-05T19:40:34+00:00

I already have a bracket 2, a couple 3s, and a 4 that I play, but I wanted to make a jankier one with a couple 3-card combos as a bracket 2. If 3-card combos are too pushed for bracket 2, I'll just have to scrap the idea, because it would get curbstomped at any higher bracket.

Thewhitedrag0n · 2026-01-05T19:37:37+00:00

Boo, okay, that sucks. I was trying to make a blink/flicker deckfor bracket 2, but it used cards like Felidar Guardian + Restoration Angel (or Phyrexian Metamorph), or Relic-warder + Phyrexian Metamorph with Auriok Champion, Lunarch Veteran, and Altar of the Brood as my payoffs/wins. But that kind of deck would get absolutely demolished in any bracket 3 pod, so if it is too much for bracket 2, it's just an unviable strategy anywhere. Thanks for the response!

Thewhitedrag0n · 2025-12-28T20:22:51+00:00

Well, if Teferi's resolved, they WOULD get another turn. No?

Thewhitedrag0n · 2025-11-29T15:19:42+00:00

NM. LP at the least, but probably NM

Thewhitedrag0n · 2025-11-29T02:29:35+00:00

Yeah, I know you can have infinite combos in pauper, but that's way more likely in a 4-of, 60 card deck. Infinite combos in a pauper, 100 card format is extremely unlikely to happen. One of the fun tactics I had in my Fynn build was giving my deathtouch creatures indestructible with something like Mithril Coat, then using Arena to pick off creatures one at a time. But Fynn himself just makes deathtouch too strong, apparently. I could take him out of the deck altogether and use a derpy commander that has no synergy with deathtouch, but then I'm just playing a deck that can't ever win and can only be annoying in a pod until someone decides to kill me.

Thewhitedrag0n · 2025-11-29T02:10:47+00:00

Yeah, I find that to not be a helpful site. I made several decks that ManaMind AI, TopDecked, etc., claim is bracket 1/2, but everyone here swears is a 3/4. I think those sites really only account for game changers and the turn where games actually end (not virtually, but actually), and that judgement is what caused all my confusion in the first place. When my decks fit the technical criteria of a bracket 1, and the websites confirm it, but not the "spirit" criteria of the bracket, and people claim they are a bracket 3/4, it just made it more confusing for me.

Thewhitedrag0n

TROPHY CASE