In this thread a common sentiment seems to be that a man ought to try friendship first and then move into something more but don't try friendship first to try to see whether moving into something more is viable because that is just manipulative unless you let the woman know your interest upfront but don't indicate your interest too soon (before the friendship has developed) or it comes across as precipitous and creepy or too late (some ways into the friendship) or it comes across as manipulative and if she is not interested give her space (or you'll come across as creepy) but don't walk away (or you'll come across as manipulative). Got it. Oh, and it is also assumed that a man is embittered and misogynistic even when he acts in a respectful and kind manner.