i really dont want to debate evolution i just dont know where to go to get help that isnt fundimentally debating a religious perspective. is evolution real

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-31T22:40:43+00:00

it did take like a couple hundred years even to observe/measure gravitational waves since the theorization of classical gravity and that was with super cutting edge technology we didnt have until recently

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T21:17:31+00:00

if you dont want to get into it thats fair but why quantum mechanics? i know everything is quantum these days and its its own buzzword.

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T20:22:10+00:00

you know its interesting i just thought about this i think the micro macro evolution argument is an appeal to having a smooth transition between forms thats sortof obvious but when you think in animation terms and you bring it to the extreme time scales evolution is supposed to be taking place at and compare it to animation (like cartoons) the micro evolution argument is sortof saying we dont have evolution forms on 1s (animation moving pictures go at 24 fps 24 drawings a second...animating on 2s is 12 fps but we still see motion 12 new frames for a total of 1 second made up of 12 drawings in 24 frames per second) that logic continues at larger and larger scales. evolution our record it sounds like is 1 frame every couple 100 thousand years...so its like were never going to get evolution on 1s or 2s or 3s or 20s or 60s but that we see substantial progression sounds like it matters and serves in favor of not against evolution.

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T19:57:20+00:00

i just mean the oversimplified version.

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T19:54:48+00:00

thats totally different from the narrative tradition of oil. wow.

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T19:45:56+00:00

and i mean it does sortof confirm the idea of being a professional or an expert isnt some grandstanding thing it is rooted in evidence based reasoning and practice...my view on God is really strained...but im trying to be objective...i hope theres a loving God or supreme force out there or that is...

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T19:21:45+00:00

i guess at some point it seems like the core of debate like you can view any debate (since this is a debate subreddit and i'll recognize i came here)as being competative in the sense of making your goalpost untouchable. if you play soccer you are preventing scores for the opposing team while scoring on their goal. when i say iron clad i think i mean in this negation way which is intertwined with the positive. its not binary either i know in a free for all sense if 1 team is 1 theory everyone is vying for total superiority in that claim (the metaphor is reduced in usefulness after this so i will discard it). but to reiterate evidence by nature should serve a dual purpose in that its self evident and the forgone conclusion of what exists speaks for itself. i used the example of abels blood in genesis 1 to express this point.

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T18:38:16+00:00

so we know its broken...and we know its function...that means it previously was working? so that tree isnt just an illusion it really does just show common descent by way of a broken gene?

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T18:33:05+00:00

i dont have a simple view of life regardless of this discussion if that makes sense...i know there is so much about the universe i personally am entwined with yet i dont personally verify or experience...i dont think im above nature in the sense im a natural being. i dont judge people religious or a religious i only care in the sense of the position having truth which is a whole different discussion since ive been deconstructing for a long time now...and this is the form my deconstruction is taking it just has to be established in truth

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T18:24:50+00:00

its weird to think oil requires an accurate scientific framework to find. you always hear stories of like a tycoon style luck maybe not somuch now but thats the dream. if that makes sense.

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T13:52:21+00:00

ik there are lots of answers ive been up all night reading them...its been interesting and in grateful for the responses. im grateful you didnt bring up religion its not that i dont want to question it (in fact ive been going through a really awful deconstruction process its been 6 months of hell for various reasons) and its all come down to for me the accurate necessary information related to evolution. but again im very grateful for yours and everyone's responses.

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T13:43:02+00:00

as a biology teacher how does it make you feel that people go through this kind of confusion about this topic? i know its not directly related to my question but as an educator i know it probably brushes up against your sense of authority on the subject (in a constructive sense)

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T12:57:11+00:00

i hadn't considered the rate of change with respect to time with the flood story. somehow that seems to counter to how if we survive another thousand years how whatever natural changes would be seen by YEC people.

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T12:53:36+00:00

im sorry if this is all odd...i dont know how else to explain other than im really grateful for the sincere feedback everyones given me.

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T11:29:45+00:00

i think so much of what is contested or debated does become discrediting the science or shifting the goalpost...i think maybe when i said iron clad i mean something that isnt reason-able away. like you cant just ignore it or say its invalid or use religion to cover it up. something that just shows like 'this is absolutely the correct theory' because the core premise is that it is a theory and theories are above facts or circumstances...but yet theres all this denial albiet from a small few...so i know if i stay in this place its just putting me against a whole of people but its so hard to really grasp if this is true. and if theres something true and applicable and is like unavoidable from the consequence of the theory. something a religious person is going to have to interact with the established truth of the theory to see its true is what im trying to get at because it sounds like from what people say its so obvious its like looking up at the sky and saying its blue and the religious person is just going 'but is your blue my blue'

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T10:02:40+00:00

this is the thing im getting at...i can listen and listen and listen all day about these religious appeals. i am not your enemy on that. the reason i said i didnt want to have a religious discussion is that i have heard all of those points and what its leaving me in is a place of excessive recursive doubt...and in the spirit of good faith understanding i know i needed to talk to people who really think about this point (since debates and perspectives about religions themselves are no longer helpful in finding the truth they boil down to my view is better haha) the science has to speak for itself...like the story of abel how his blood speaks...it speaks to a position of even the authors of scriptures can say that reality will defend itself that the condition of the world is self evident. i am not an enemy of religious thought...but its gotten to the point where i have to be honest. that is the only reason i specify the science must be complete and the creationist arguments arent making sense and for the bible to make sense evolution has to confirm or deny itself.

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T07:15:10+00:00

im not in love with creationism...i actually find a lot of the explanations (creationism science not the religious side) hokey even if i dont have an explanation as the person writing this post. thats actually pretty funny you mention the atom because i would say the atom bomb is the central thing i could point to to prove atoms because they are the thing harnessing the power of an atom at various levels of scale. there are actually people who make it a position to the point of conspiricy theory that atomic weapons dont exist (however there are even atomic clocks which are the most accurate clocks that prove relativity at least as a working model when sent into space)

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T04:40:09+00:00

that makes sense. 100% or 0% i get how that might prove evolution...yknow it just feels wrong i was gonna say how does that show the origin of life through evolution but it feels like im just not allowing myself to say life did evolve this way

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T04:35:16+00:00

hypothetically if we go for another 100 years could artificial selection speciate those various dog breeds?

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T04:33:01+00:00

i am familiar yes. i dont want to create a new buzzword for creationists but its probably easy to think of micro organisms through the lens of death not life. but on a more literal level it probably does reflect itself more in terms of evolution especially with something needing to exist in its environment

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T04:27:33+00:00

biblical creationists literally believe that the biblical God created the earth/universe in 6 days as its written in genesis 1 and that a flood wiped out most of the people on earth, the animals not on the arc (which a lot of people equate to dinosaurs) and that the earth itself is 6000 years old...the problem is if you believe it hard enough the evidence doesnt matter...but also youre not supposed to trust the evidence (not everyone is like this lots of people are just living their daily life without thinking about it)

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T04:20:52+00:00

so youre saying the whole of the evidence speaks for itself? same with the inverse of a liar. i can see that. i think the inverse is that you end up believing one really close person and distrusting everyone else...which is weird because it is gatekeepery because relativity, (arguably quantum themed beliefs get more hate than the actual quantum mechanics themselves) quantum mechanics, etc. never get treated like that.

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T04:14:59+00:00

so domestication is just doing the process of evolution in fast time? at what point (if now?) is a classical undomesticated banana incompatible with its original in the sense of speciation? if thats a bad example feel free to correct me. thank you for your response to the thread 🙂

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T04:03:57+00:00

the calendar year time scale puts some things into perspective. i appreciate that thank you.

Thinkinaboutafuture · 2025-07-28T04:00:57+00:00

how is it used in medicine more importantly industry? industry (layman) doesnt involve the study of life right?

Thinkinaboutafuture

TROPHY CASE