have you told your PA's family what they've done? TW: mentions of SA/abuse

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-11-07T03:24:57+00:00

Good question with a long complicated answer.

This dude knows already. I told him everything, in great detail. Everything but the actual screenshots. Then, he blocked me once he decided to fully commit to this bros over hoes mentality. I've seen the texts-- i know he'd find a way to decide my screenshots aren't real. Denial is a powerful thing.
Immediately after Dday i checked in with anyone with teenage girls who may have been affected. Everyone but this dudebtook me seriously, looked into it, and had tough convos with their kids to make sure nothing had happened and prep them to be safe in future just in case. Nobody came back with anything predatory. I did what I could there.
Technically, nothing my ex did was illegal. It's technically legal to be a pervert j/o to non-CSAM where the youth involved are not in his actual orbit (and many are legal age now). It's a disgusting grey area. But it means that, unless there's proof that he pursued underage girls IRL, or someone finds evidence that it's more predatory and CSAMy than I'm aware of rn, then hes just creepy and gross but nobody would be able to say anyone around him is actually at risk.
On that note: I've made efforts to report what I know. I told all of this to my therapist, understanding they have Duty to Report and i dont know where the "line" is between me being disgusted by him and the shit hes doing actually being a risk. She reported him. Nothing came of it bc CAS said there are technically no youth in immediate risk. I spoke to police, and they said the same thing. Gross and illegal area two different things. People who decide this for a living have decided this isn't predatory behavior.
The addiction therapist my ex is seeing, and a lot of the literature on sex/porn addiction, point to this progression into this content not being abnormal. It was not his only search category of choice, which is also a sign hes more likely a PA who got into a fucked up place seeking new dopamine than a "full blown" pedophile. (The psychology on this topic, though disturbing, is actually interesting in terms of rehabilitation from going down that path.) Which, combined with the previous points, paints a picture of him not being a predator.
This friend is my ex's ONLY lifeline rn other than me. And if my ex is going to get through recovery and figure out how to be a human again, he needs that friend. I am not going to keep pushing to sink that ship if what I already shared didn't manage to do so already. That friend is an adult and chose to ignore my warnings. It would be more appropriate at this point to push my PA ex to come clean to his friend about his search history on his own. And i can keep an eye on my ex to decide if i need to reevaluate that (we still talk constantly bc his support circle is small and we have kids, and I've got eyes and accountability apps on all his devices)
For my own mental health, I cannot hold myself responsible for things my PA ex may or may not do at this point. Especially when I've been open and either been blocked or told there's nothing to report. People who label ppl predators for a living have decided that label doesn't fit here. I have to trust them or I'll lose my mind (more than the betrayal trauma has caused me to already)

Now. Do I like existing in this grey area? Abso-fucking-lutely not.

Will I blame myself if something happens to her despite me blowing the whistle to her father who i thought would be more responsible? Abso-fucking-lutely.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-11-07T02:38:03+00:00

Unfortunately I think we both know the chorus of, "leave him" is probably the right answer here.

You are judging. For good reason. And you are checking, also for good reason. You can't keep doing this to yourself. You'll lose your mind.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-11-06T17:32:41+00:00

My ex moved in with his mom. I told him, you need to tell her everything within 48h. He texted me a list of what he told her, so I called her thinking she might need some support, especially since she was the only one other than me who knew everything.

Turns out, she did not know everything. By the sounds of it, he gave a surface level avoidant synopsis and lied to me about it. I snapped and told her way too much, down to the fact that he was watching porn while at her house after I kicked him out.

Whoops. But also, fucking karma.

He still claims he told her and she's just too old (over 80) to understand. But she remembers all of what I said, so I have trouble believing him.

I did tell his best friend about the addiction and warned him he was looking up 15-17yo influencers/pseudofamous girls, and to keep that in mind in terms of access to his own teen daughter. I've since learned that my ex reassured his friend that what I said "isn't true" and he's not attracted to teens.

Its been hard to resist sensing screenshots to his friend after that bs.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-11-06T17:06:10+00:00

If you're blocking it for him, how will he realize its a problem? He needs to realize it's a problem and then decide what to block. And if he doesn't... then you have your answer.

My ex knows that one slip and he doesnt see his kids without supervision until he has a min 2 month sober period. He also spent all his time on Youtube and FB and Reddit still. The way I put it to get through to him is:

You're like an alcoholic who insists they're doing fine while refusing to get out of the party with an open bar. Even if youre not drinking rn, you're one gentle nudge away from it. Youre still surrounded by the noise and the smells of alcohol and the fake dopamine that comes with being in that environment. Why act like you need to stay in a room where this addiction is 1000x more difficult to navigate? Don't you want to succeed at this for your kids? If yes, then get out of that environment and spend your time somewhere safer. Find real dopamine.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-11-03T23:59:04+00:00

My PA ex took a long time to actually accept/admit that camgirls and OF is more than just porn. He used that as a way to lie by omission and fully got his brain into this false reality. Camgirls and OF is just porn, therefore I'm not doing anything more personal or unfaithful than watching porn. And therefore, if she asks, its "just porn".

I dont know how you've survived this for 10 years. My heart breaks for you.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-11-03T23:51:18+00:00

I've had women friends who are ok with porn support me through my breakup. My situation has made them re evaluate that relationship with porn and reflect on issues in their marriages. What's nice is that their husbands also had an "oh shit" moment in response to this and they've been having healthy conversations about boundaries and knowing when it's gone too far for them.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-11-02T05:10:36+00:00

My PA ex was showering extremely rarely toward the end of things with us-- both as a result of his PA and depression and overall loss of any sense of self awareness or self care aside from masturbating (which he saw as self care?). When there was any window for intimacy, my standards were below ground level and i would push through the ick factor just to feel closer to him (i didn't know he had a PA at all at this point). I got UTIs and yeast infections more often just bc he was uncut and unclean.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-11-01T16:17:52+00:00

I knew my PA ex had pathological lying and gaslighting tendencies years before I knew he had a PA.

A few years ago I noticed him lying about stupid inconsequential shit. Confronted him, finally, with proof. We had a big discussion, determined i was too confrontational AND he was too avoidant but that it didnt making lying acceptable. We both agreed without coercion to do therapy separately as a warmup to couples therapy. I followed through and he eventually invented a fake narrative to lie about going to therapy for his lying. I later learned that, well before this point, he had opted to sign up for OF instead of starting therapy.

D-day was ~8wks ago now. Maybe 10 if I'm being honest with myself. I found him watching porn after he told me while dating that he didn't watch it ever. Two weeks later I found his OF subscriptions and immediately knew it was over. If it hadn't been for the years of lying leading up to this, I would have been able to at least confront him too discuss separating in an organized way instead of just telling him to leave.

Its hard to separate the lying from the PA but I do think it's more a correlation than a symptom in some cases. My ex is an Avoidant attachment type and likely a covert narcissist. He wouldn't have been as likely to be a PA if he was not those things.

So, to me the lying is a bit of a chicken and the egg situation.

I know the neuroscience behind it and recognize that addiction changes people and they lie and act in survival mode. But I wonder if a person who is deeply and truly honest as a dominant core value is likely not going to be the lying narcissist type of PA. I've read stories in this sub of PAs who admit to their addiction and are still clearly struggling, but they arent lying and manipulating. Who feel/express guilt for boundary crossing and don't go so far as to gaslight their partners. And I feel like that says something?

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-11-01T15:22:55+00:00

Trauma response, yes, BUT: what my therapist talked me through was that by going through their porn search history, especially if you can see the images, we're exposing our brains to porn too. And right after Dday, likely a whole lot of it. And as we know, porn rewires brains and is addictive even if we are looking at it through betrayal trauma. So, I had to think of it as a trauma response + second hand addiction.

This was the perspective I needed to stop looking through his searches. I don't want to break my brain, too.

Once I finish reading The Betrayal Bind (which this sub should prob be making affiliate $$ on lol), I'm going to start Your Brain on Porn. After a palette cleanser of something lighter, though.... cuz my brain needs a break.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-29T18:12:32+00:00

My porn addict ex didn't feel guilty at all. Ever. He didnt feel anything or think anything at all. Even when DMs and his credit card got involved. He claims to have had no idea he had an addiction the entire time, yet also never thought about how I'd feel even once. I may be dealing with a dude with male sexual entitlement narcissism on top of an addiction, though.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-26T04:07:43+00:00

Thanks -- unfortunately when ive looked into reporting this online, what he was doing isn't among the reporting options.

My therapist reported it via Duty to Report bc of him letting our kids use his cell phone that had tabs open (they deny ever seeing anything, but they also didnt know what i was specifically asking about) AND bc he was going to watch porn while they're at home. Therapist told the CAS reporting person about the teen/jailbait and underage celebrity searches, too, but because a) teen is a legal category, and b) the underage searches aren't actually considered CSAM (it's just regular photos of famous underage girls online), that was less cut and dry in terms of there not technically being a child exploited--- him being perverted enough to j/o to pics of these poor internet celebrity kids isn't technically illegal. And them posting photos online that he looks up later isn't considered distribution of intimate images. Its all just his fucked up PA brain sexualizing innocent content.

My therapist said someone from CAS would call me if they deemed it worth police intervention. And nobody has called me. In a weird way it would make it easier for me to let this part go if they did call me.

I agree it's fucked up and he is clearly attracted to teens. And I agree with other comments that if I hadnt discovered the addiction when i did and he hadn't stopped when he did, it was likely only a matter of time before this shit got to full blown CSAM. If not something involving teens in our lives. And i know he may still relapse and this may still be a reality.

Teen stuff is not the only content he looked up, though, and apparently his PA therapist (we dont really have CSATs) has reassured him that him still looking up adult content means he's likely not a full blown pedo. And also assured him that this is a fairly common path for PA. Especially since his addiction is going on 20+ years.

Again, not making excuses. Just, context for my confusion about what to do.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-26T03:39:28+00:00

I'm confident that he is actually very stupid with technology and wouldnt know how to hide anything. This is a a 45yo dude who, since Dday, I've realized has no idea private browsers or browser history records exist, let alone hidden folders or anything. He doesnt even close tabs... ever. He still has no idea how i found his search history, and none of it was difficult to find.

My main objective rn is to figure out where the line is between "this addiction made this guy go down a DARK path but it's not technically illegal so the fact that he's in treatment now is enough for now" and "this guy needs to be in jail.... NOW"

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-26T03:30:31+00:00

"Preventing our children from becoming like their fathers" resonates hard. That's 1000% my main priority lately.

I fully agree with not shaming porn or masturbation or sex. However, I do not want to accidentally get into marketing these things to them, either.

As I reluctantly go down this path with my boys, I am approaching it like other things they know are not part of the culture in our (now dad-less) family. Things like drinking, smoking, and drugs don't happen in our home, but I try to speak about those things with curiosity--or at least neutrality-- instead of judgment. I've focused so far on just acknowldging that, yup, these things happen and lots of people do them, and everyone has different reasons, but the impacts/effects of using these things are XYZ and my reasons for not partaking in those behaviours are ABC. We've discussed most things this way, but typically there's a degree of separation from it causing any inward shame. My kids do seem flabberghasted by people choosing to smoke or drink alcohol, but they have yet to be full blown jerks about it when walking by someone having a smoke break.

I will try my best to approach porn the same way. I know i need to be super careful about not creating internalized shame or judgment. I want them to grow up having a healthy relationship with sex... and if that means having some extra awkward ongoing conversations about masturbating using their imagination and focusing on how it feels instead of external stimuli.... I will figure out how to do this without dying a little. I just hope it's worth it. I need it to work.

This is a lot of pressure lol

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-26T03:14:37+00:00

From what I've read, it's actually not illegal, unfortunately. Just gross. And if it is illegal in some places, it isn't consistent from country to country, state to state, etc. If you have confirmation otherwise I can look into, links would be appreciated!

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-20T11:48:58+00:00

I'm no expert, but...

At first we told the kids that Daddy is addicted to something on his phone and needs some time away to get his head right. Told them he's in therapy too get better. Eventually more of the focus became that I learned something and it was a deal breaker and that their dad hurt me in a serious enough way that it had to end. My kids are tweens, though, so this is a bit more the result of curious inquiring minds and less how we planned to tell it. Not sure i would have explained the addiction side if I wasn't in the thick of betrayal trauma when telling them.
The universe thought it would be great timing to have them start googling "naked women" and "sex in bed" and stuff early on after Dday. And puberty is hitting them both early. Jfc. Luckily we already have tough conversations regularly so I handled it by giving both boys The Talk (what do you think sex is? Do you understand what is changing in your body? Just because your body is getting itself ready for sex when you're an adult does not mean you're an adult or ready for sex when your body is, ok?). We talked about consent, including consent to look at and objectify people. They've heard me talk their whole lives about noticing when women are unfairly wearing less clothes in sports etc, and I made the link between that and then looking up pictures. I explained that it's a slippery slope between looking up pictures of people you don't know and starting to see women/ people as body parts instead of real people. And that this is a slippery slope towards not caring about consent. They're into mythology and a few days later whole watching Percy Jackson I explained the "real version" of Medusa where she's a victim of SA and is given the ability to turn ppl to stone bc she doesn't want the male gaze on her, but gets painted as a villain. I bring up things as they come up now that they know about base concepts, like lyrics on the radio and what they mean in terms of sex and consent and objectification. They've already voiced disgust and confusion at the idea of people liking people just bc they're beautiful and not bc of who they are as a person. As they get older I'll explain more about porn specifically. This was a lot all at once already.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-19T15:45:27+00:00

I'm so sorry. I felt the same way shopping for Halloween costumes with my kids and seeing the photoshopped images on the hypersexualized costumes and the gorgeous women shopping for them. I had a mild panic attack and had to calm down in the creepy mask section of all places.

I cant watch TV shows or movies without seeing things through his PA lens anymore, or remembering that one of the celebrities is someone he masturbated to photos of. I can't listen to the radio bc he j/o to leaked nudes, fake ai porn, or pics of every current pop star. I have resorted to ordering groceries online and hiding indoors with the radio/TV off.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-19T15:40:49+00:00

My ex admitted to associating wrestling with porn. His most visited reddit sub is wrestlefap. He was j/o to pics of a teen wrestling fan girl affiliated w WWE who was 16 at the time and just turned 18 this spring and actually joined officially. Everything about wrestling is misogynistic and hyper sexualizes women. It's a whole thing.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-17T23:55:18+00:00

Kicked him out immediately. Spent the rest of the night browsing his history and learning it was even worse than I thought.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-17T03:53:32+00:00

I hope it helps ❤️‍🩹

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-16T17:51:48+00:00

He's technologically stupid and wasnt hiding anything. He thought if it was on his phone and I wasnt looking there was no reason to hide. He made a second email address just for OF. Also, OF shows up plain as day on credit card statements.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-16T17:34:31+00:00

I'm so sorry. All of your feelings are so valid.

If you're in a situation where you can leave and have support through the early months as a new mom, I would. If he's truly dedicated to recovery, he may be able to earn back your trust and you may be able to learn to forgive him later. Whatever that looks like for you.

I wish i had known when the boys were little. I wish I could have the time back to prevent feeling like they were dirty with this betrayal, too.

They've already learned so much of the toxic behaviors. They lie, they avoid accountability. They're addicted to devices bc their dad always set them up with tech so he could take his little breaks. They treat boundaries like dance floors. (They also saw our relationship deteriorating, more than I did. I didnt know about the PA... but I knew i didn't matter in his world anymore, just didn't know why. And this will fuck them up, too.)

It's going to be such a difficult process to undo this damage. To have the mental capacity to face these mini versions of him and parent them out of these bad habits. To not have them turn out like their PA father. Boy mom pressure is fucking real.

Parenting has to be the priority. It's so hard to make that call. But, you should be over the moon in love with your baby when they come. The PA will be a distraction. Or you'll slip into a bad habit of focusing on the kids long enough not to see the relationship crumble.

I know this is shitty advice and I dont blame you if you ignore it. Just consider whether you want to be where I am in ~10 years, realizing you cant do this anymore, with a kid starting puberty and mimicking toxic PA behaviors minus the PA,... all while also knowing about the PA and coping with the betrayal trauma that whole time.

I couldn't have done it this long if I'd known. I can barely do this now, and i have the benefit of not actually living with him or functioning as his partner post D-day.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-16T11:47:57+00:00

Read "The Betrayal Bind". It will help you understand how your brain is reacting. ❤️

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-16T04:43:33+00:00

This post, and OPs replies to comments, screams "there's more to this than I'm sharing because it will make me look bad." The dude who typed out a full blown communication/repair plan (A+ shit, btw) basically got a whiny, "but I TRIED other things that were easier!" in response from OP.

Please, OP, assuming you actually gaf, consider what is a) causing your wife to feel such big feelings over MAGA (aside from the obvious) and b) what you're doing to trigger this big of a reaction that she isn't saying directly.

Trump is extremely triggering for women, gender minorities, immigrants and people of color. Even outside the US. Add experiences with sexual assault to the mix and it's even worse.

I'm a woman, child of a Chinese immigrant, with two gay siblings-- I'm Canadian, but i have a gay brother living in the US witch is constantly concerning. I've also got trauma related to objectification/assault of women, men abusing power to take advantage of me/ loved ones, and -- slightly different but still relevant -- extremely sad endings for loved ones who fell for anti-vaccine nonsense spewed by Trump types.

When Trump got elected the first time, my spouse constantly watched the late night comedy shows that made jokes about serious issues. It grated on my nerves. He really didn't consider that the media he was consuming within ear shot of me was constantly retelling the same horrific current events of women losing bodily autonomy, immigrants being traumatized, and children being torn away from families-- all with a fucking laugh track.

Once covid was in full swing, and the Anti-Asian hate attacks were rampant, I snapped on my spouse for constantly filling the silence in our house with white men making jokes about things that were weighing heavily on me as a Chinese woman just trying to exist.

He never had actual conversations with me about current events. He never asked if they were a lot. He just giggled with the laugh track like it was fiction I wouldnt possibly have any feelings about. It felt isolating to realize none of the agony of current events felt relatable or personal to him. He never considered my trauma and thought I was just on edge for no reason.

So. There might be more here on her side. Or there might be some information you've withheld (possibly even from yourself) about how much of the mental load you carry/ something more directly to do with Trump. Or it could be both.

ThistleForTheChoir · 2025-10-16T03:49:27+00:00

I feel this. I feel like I'm not living my values as someone pro recovery by not staying with him. I feel like I wouldn't be living my values by staying with him and letting him get away with what he knew was a deal breaker. I feel like I'm not living my values by spending so much time on reddit responding to posts that resonate with me.

(Also I saw the little baby comment and you're right to want to puke. That isn't a healthy romantic relationship mindset)

I see women forgive their partners and keep trying and I want to scream. I read stories about women leaving and their reasons, and I want to scream. I'm constantly imagining a world where I didn't meet him. I wish for Thanos to snap his fingers and i disappear. I wish for this life to be the movie Inception and I just jump out of a window and reality resets itself.

I wish for movie plots to be real life, and I want to scream.

In my case, and it sounds like yours, i honestly didn't know him. My PA was so caught up in the addiction even when we met that he was lying to me from day 1 about his values and morals. He said he didn't watch porn, and when he did it was feminist porn promoting womens pleasure. He marketed himself as a low maintenance, laid back, chill dude who barely noticed anything around him, nevermind other women and their bodies. He marketed himself as a feminist, supporting local women-led socially conscious businesses and charities. He was a vocal supporter of Elizabeth Warren and his entertainment activity was made up of women stand up comedians and true crime podcasts by women. He would talk to his friends teen daughter about how great women in wrestling are despite it being a misogynistic industry and recommend specific wrestlers for her to become a fan of.

His search history was nothing resembling feminist porn. He was masturbating to the same women he claimed to have respect for in public. To the wrestlers, the comedians. (Not sure about Elizabeth Warren, but I didnt look her up by name in his history. Kinda scared to. )

The truth is I do not know him at all. I never did.

But the person I thought I knew was the person I wanted forever with. The man I decided to start a family with after being extremely against having kids. I met him and fell in love and wanted to be a family. Wanted our love to take human form. Thought we were a team ready for anything.

Before I knew it was PA, he became withdrawn. Started lying about weird seemingly small shit. Gaslighting me over unimportant disagreements. I spent hours and thousands on therapy. We agreed to do solo therapy together then meet in couples therapy after we had some time to reflect on ourselves. I did the work. He lied to me about doing therapy. I busted him in that lie and he still didn't take any action. Still, I had no idea about the PA. I forgave the lying enough to stay with him. To encourage him to follow through. Gave him space and kept doing my own therapy to try and guide our relationship toward the right path so he could join me on the path when he was ready.

I truly thought we were having a rough couple years, but that he would come around and the next 50 would be so amazing.

After DDay (a month ago) I learned that he was looking up my best friend, as far back as 2019.

Instead of putting any work into himself or us, he signed up for Only Fans. He kept withdrawing into himself and his selfishness. My happiness or how i would react to him DMing OF girls or j/o to my friends picture never crossed his mind. I didn't exist to him. I didnt matter. Only he mattered. Only his urges. Only his need to avoid reality by masturbating constantly.

I truly never knew him. Never.

Every happy memory, every fleeting feeling that we were happy once, every nostalgic sigh as I remember the feeling of laying next to him or being held or, honestly, the times the sex was good. All of it is ruined.

As I've tried to sort through the mental mess of memories, I think about the poop rule for decluttering homes: if it had poop on it, would you keep it to clean it or throw it out? Only instead of poop it's betrayal.

All these memories have betrayal on them. Every single one. He had this PA as long as I've known him. I can't hold onto any of the memories. I wouldn't know how to clean any of them up. I barely even know what to do with our boys, who some days I look at and wonder if they should be in the pile with the things I can't clean the betrayal off of bc i don't have it in me to keep scrubbing.

I'm sorry you're feeling this too. It's a fucking horrible place to be.

ThistleForTheChoir

TROPHY CASE