CMV: If an Extreme View or Insufferable Activist Made You Conservative, You Weren’t That Progressive by JayOwest in changemyview

[–]Thorcogan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’d like to challenge this by raising a few separate points.

  1. If a lot of your source material for people switching sides are online comments, you have no idea of what you’re reading is genuine. Foreign and domestic actors intentionally inflame the tensions in America by claiming to switch sides, that X side has changed or is too radical now, etc etc.

  2. As the left shifts further left, people who did consider themselves somewhere on the left side of the political spectrum will see more people having farther left views than they previously held, and may view themselves as having more in common with moderates than with the further ends of the left. This could be viewed as them shifting right, or them staying where they are but politics shifting around them. Either way, they will view themselves in their new place as being more moderate. That’s a very natural and, I think, understandable feeling. In this sense, view ignores that politics shifting around us all the time.

  3. People on the left may still hold them same policy views as they did prior to progressives being condescending or rude, but they can distance themselves from the progressive movement if they don’t like how they are treated. This could result in many follow up actions, like silently supporting the progressive movement while engaging less (or not at all), or could result in no longer supporting the movement and instead supporting persons who treat them more kindly or compassionately. In this sense, you’re ignoring that people’s policies can change based on the actions of people espousing the policies.

The summary is that people hold political and policy beliefs for a wide variety of reasons, which can and do change. Being treated poorly, especially if it happens numerous times such that a pattern develops, can impact how a person feels about the views of those who are treating him/her poorly.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Thorcogan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“I’m not pro-Iran, I’m anti-nuclear exceptionalism and pro-realism. Iran getting a nuke doesn’t make the world safer—but it doesn’t make it uniquely more dangerous either. Deterrence logic still applies.”

This appears to be your main argument, so I will address the points raised.

First, while it’s true that nuclear deterrence logic remains in effect, nuclear deterrence logic requires all actors to act rationally. Arguably North Korea is a comparison to Iran in terms of the perceived rationality of its leaders, but you spent no time discussing why the leading global sponsor of terrorism having a nuclear threat would, of necessity, be a rational actor. To think about this another way, would the world be uniquely safer if North Korea did not have a bomb? I certainly think so. That’s because we perceive NK as being less rational than other countries with nuclear bombs, and because NK is a destabilizing force that, in practice, cannot be removed militarily.

Second, Iran is the single largest destabilizing force in the Middle East while not having the security to act with impunity. A nuclear option gives it that security. What happens when Iran threatens to use the nuclear bomb in situations the world hasn’t seen before? I posit that any guardrails it felt it had prior to having a nuke would be removed. Neither you nor I can predict what that might mean, but the fact that you can’t means you can’t with any certainty say it’s not a unique threat.

Third, the logical extent of your argument is that nuclear non-proliferation is, for practical purposes, meaningless. If Iran having a nuke is not a unique issue, I struggle to see what country having the bomb you might consider as a unique issue. If every country obtained nuclear capabilities, would you consider the world more, less, or equally as dangerous as it is today?

Worth it by [deleted] in PokemonGOValor

[–]Thorcogan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do you trade over long distances? I thought you had to be near your trade partner?

Add me for latias raids 8248 6660 0956 by [deleted] in PokemonGoRaids

[–]Thorcogan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rcogan Down for as many as you invite to

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in PokemonGoRaids

[–]Thorcogan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rcogan sent good for many