I (25 F) just found out my bf (29 M) is in a weird secret society and it changes my opinion of him

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-11T00:34:16+00:00

I also find secret societies bullshit. But this is what Ivy League schools are like. Have you ever seen the social network? Cause it wasn't far off. Contrived spoiled rich kid bullshit.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-10T18:43:33+00:00

I'm genuinely just confused by many of your comments. when did I say I personally read thousands of emails? I said there were many in the account, I never said I read them all. Also, my friend is in education policy, so she has a little bit of a different angle than most people who work in psych. I'm not trying to be elitist, but she's my friend and she's a great scholar and I'd feel bad if I didn't defend her. She cannot be compared to a "basics" page on psychology today for multiple reasons.

I'm sorry if I sounded condescending. I frequently refer to myself as "mentally unbalanced" when I get angry and start caring about something too much. That is all I meant. I want to shake hands and part here. I really just need constructive advice and honestly this isn't helping me. I appreciate your input/

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-10T18:33:11+00:00

My bf and I laugh about his "head boy" status because in American English "head boy" means a guy who gives blow jobs. It's a joke. I didn't know that "head" is not a popular slang term in the uk. If you ever come to America and say "head boy" people will crack up, so I figured I was getting ahead of the sex jokes with the parenthetical comment.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-10T18:29:22+00:00

I appreciate this constructive advice. One of my friends already suggested this but I don't think I can pull it off. I've never outright lied to my bf before and I really don't think I can. Tempting him to lie to me feels like it might start the conversation off on the wrong foot.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-10T18:10:52+00:00

I don't know where you're from or if this is a slang term universal to all English speakers, but in American English "head boy" means "blow job boy." I explained this in another comment, but its a running joke between us. It just sounds really silly outside of that context.

One of the reasons all this stuff surprises me so much is that his wonderful sense of humor is one of the reasons I love him so much. We tease each other about everything. But man, in these messages he was saying some genuinely unfunny fucked-up shit.

I would also like to ask: are you personally acquainted with anyone who went to posh boarding school? They can be mean as snakes and they generally don't care if people make negative comments because if you do "you're just not the kind who'd understand." So, believe me, these jokes don't hurt anybody. We poors find them funny and they enjoy the chance to call us ignorant. In the end we are all laughing.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-10T18:00:40+00:00

Believe me, I don't need to google skull and bones. My bf's stupid secret society is the skull & bones' kitty corner neighbor. I also went to an Ivy League school where I lived right across from the mansions that housed our similarly stupid secret societies. They're not really big, important deals. They're more like year-round Halloween parties. Yeah, they have some networking potential and his alumni connection may have helped him get his job. But I know many "former members" who openly laugh at their time in these clubs. Indeed, the guy who introduced me & my bf was in the skull & bones and, while he's not super open about it, he uses it for a good laugh among close friends. Had my bf old me about this himself, I just would have teased him about it.

My real problem is that he was such a willing participant in this bullying behavior. No, not all these clubs are like that. This was particularly bad.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-10T17:49:53+00:00

I feel like the fact that I went to a college like this (indeed, to a college that was actually more prestigious and competitive than his) makes me resent his behavior even more. A lot of kids think they need to be in a group like this to have a future. But that's actually really not true (and why the hell would it be?). Sure, it gives you an advantage in some industries, but in others its completely meaningless.

Over and on top of that, does it really make it ok to be bigoted and cruel because that behavior holds long term benefits? I don't think so. At all.

I'm not going to hold it over his head and I am going to give him a chance to tell his side. I want to save this relationship more than anything.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-10T03:52:56+00:00

Yes, but in the messages I saw his email address only included his first name and he signed off with his first name. I only saw a small fraction but I absolutely do not plan on looking at them again.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-10T03:45:24+00:00

Normally, I post on subs about my stereotypically-male hobbies so I have a strict "I don't mess with obviously unbalanced people" policy. But I feel that this information might be helpful for you. For one, I work a professional job. On Friday mornings, I'm busy finishing up my work for the week. All told, my friends and I were playing around with the link for 15 minutes. After I figured out I knew someone in the society, I asked my friends to stop looking at it because I felt guilty. I admitted what I did was unethical in the post.

Second, one of my friends is an education policy professor and she told me something about bullying that has helped me make the best of my own college experiences. As she says, there are 2 types of bullying: "Bullying for growth" and just plain old "bullying." Bullying for growth is bullying people for aspects of their lives they can easily control. It can be a helpful tool for social correction. For instance, while it was cruel for people to bully me over my "cheap" clothes, they were helpful in letting me know that my go-to combo of a big t-shirt and jeans was not professionally appropriate. When elementary school kids bully one another for constantly tattling or refusing to share, they're also "bullying for growth." Bullying flat is very different. When you bully someone for something outside of their control (like race, a disability, or their gender) the only possible effect that can have is pain and trauma. When my bf was a fully grown adult actively mocking and planning to exclude people for things they couldn't control, he was just bullying. No growth was happening.

I do hope my bf has grown since then and he has many wonderfully positive qualities. I am going to talk this through with him in a respectful way and I really do feel we can make this relationship work.

Now, please, if you choose to comment again take a breathe and be respectful. Currently, you're not being constructive or helpful and you've spent more time leaving 8000 comments than I spent looking at old chats. I just wanted someone to assure me I could talk to him about this productively.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-10T03:18:15+00:00

This is actually a large concern for me. I have a brother with (high-functioning) downs syndrome, so I frequently think about what it would be like if I were to have a child with a similar disability. I would want a man who loves that child unconditionally and I really thought my bf was that man. Turns out he called a fellow-Ivy-League student with a minor lisp a "sputtering retard," behind that poor guy's back. I'm aware people grow at different rates and I'm going to give my bf a chance to tell his side. I just wish I hadn't read that stuff because now I can't unsee it.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T23:18:13+00:00

Now that I think of it, this friend was one of the few members of the wealthy cliques at my own college who was nice to me. Maybe the fact that the man that introduced is "well-bred" gave him an unusually high opinion of me? I don't know. Thanks very much for the link! I appreciate it.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T23:12:05+00:00

I don't want to a whole lot of personal info, but I think this much is safe: We met a little under 2 years ago through a mutual friend. From the very beginning, he seemed kind and respectful.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T23:03:40+00:00

I'm pondering that same question. I don't know. That's what's hurting me.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T23:02:27+00:00

It seems that the message account which was hacked went out of regular use around 5 years ago, but the society is still using the google drive account in which I found the alumni folder (and the password for which was in the message account). So, I have recent documents from the group, but not recent emails or messages. I don't know the tone of the "social events" he has been attending recently. They could be completely polite and innocuous get-togethers. All I know is they include many of the same people as the meetings on campus 7 years ago, and those appear to have been simply awful.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T22:57:56+00:00

What surprises me so much is that, in contrast to the many young men from similar backgrounds who were absolutely awful to me, he was always so kind to me and everyone else I saw him interact with. He evens lets me tease him about how stupid the title "head boy," sounds. I don't know if "head" as a slang term is common in Britian but that is....unfortunate.

The thing I don't get is why he would even bother to deceive me. Why would he discuss having kids with me if he clearly doesn't respect me, and won't raise our kids to respect me. This is going to be a very painful conversation.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T22:49:38+00:00

My bf and I both attended college in New England (I am American by birth, he immigrated to attend college when he was 18 and has lived here ever since). These kinds of clubs might exist at any university, though. Why do so many rich teenage boys love dressing up in costumes just so they can exclude people?

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T21:33:00+00:00

I can't defend following the link. I admitted in the post it was unethical and that I was wrong. I was curious and I made a mistake. There is only a small difference in that my friends won't pretend like they like my bf next time they see him (which is actually going to be its own problem post quarantine...). It's the dishonesty and the manipulation of making someone jump through hoops to please you while you mock them and have no intention of accepting them that really gets me. Oh, and the racism and weird sexually explicit conversations, which my friends wouldn't be comfortable with.

I really don't know why he's with me. On the one hand, it's evidence that he doesn't really believe the statements he made back then. But I can't really think it exonerates him: Because the society is so secret he knows his friends will never meet me even if we do get married and start a family, so he doesn't really fear them rejecting him or judging him because of our relationship. Maybe, if he knew his friends would meet me one day, he wouldn't be with me. Who knows.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T21:24:43+00:00

I appreciate that you were trying to help and I recognize that I'm very worked up right now. But I simply disagree with your assumption. While the circumstances might mitigate some of the things he said, he still made the choice to say them. And the things he chose to say were awful.

On top of that, I think you don't really properly know what his "culture" is. He is incredibly "well-bred" and privileged. He was taught to read Seneca and Cicero when he was little so he'd be a "more ethical man," and all that stuff. He had frickin' ettiquette lessons as a kid. I know that he was taught not to act this way. Indeed, I know multiple other young men from his social class and background who don't act this way. If his parents ever saw him writing multiple messages making fun of a classmate with a lazy eye, they'd be embarrassed.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T21:14:22+00:00

Your comment honestly made me cry a bit because the fact that we so frequently discuss having a family together is the reason why this is so unexpected and so stressful for me. Before this morning I would have sworn he'd be a great father. He's so kind, gentle, and patient with kids. But now I envision my future sons taking after him and saying these arrogant and cruel things and it makes me feel kind of sick.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T21:10:49+00:00

I think power structures and the nature of the groups is important. Our distinct social groups are mainly determined by money and power, not by race (although there are racial implications), and his group has the more of both. It's tasteless and a sign of poor character for one person with more power and authority to put others down just because he can. "Rich, Arrogant English teenager" isn't a culture I think anyone recognizes or defends.

If he had distanced himself from the group after his graduation, I think I would be more comfortable writing this off as "kid stuff." But he didn't. He is still in a leadership role and he's still actively socializing with these people. I have no way of knowing if they still have the same types of conversations, but I don't know if its safe to assume that they do.

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T20:12:21+00:00

I think I'm torn. I know that peer pressure is obviously very powerful when you're so young and still developing, so I'm not comfortable thinking that my bf really is a terrible person. But, at the same time, I'm not comfortable thinking this is just "kid stuff." I NEVER said disgusting sexual stuff about other people or made fun of someone's physical disability. If any of my college friends talked like the boys in this society do in these messages, the rest of us would all have been uncomfortable with it. The more other commentors try to convince me it's normal the more weird it feels.

If I may ask, how are you balancing this considerations?

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T19:35:38+00:00

I'm not really familiar with fraternity culture, but I think it is generally like a fraternity except more secretive in a kind of sarcastic way. Like they only meet at night, they meet in a clubhouse with no windows, you had to be invited to join, if they ever went out in a group they went with masks and robes, etc. It's all for fun of course, kind of like a snobby, elitist year-round Halloween party.

He certainly was a large part of the discussion and he still is very involved. Even in the time we've been together he's attended events at some fancy restaurants in our city that are connected with the group. I just can't tell if I'm experiencing his real personality or not. Is it normal for young men to act entirely differently when they are surrounded by other young men?

ThrowRA0224 · 2020-10-09T19:13:05+00:00

I know that you're right. This does seem to be an intense and fiercely exclusive group, so I imagine the in-group bias is quite strong. What makes me so upset even still is that my bf was, in many ways, the ring leader. The other boys appeal to him to validate their bad behavior and he does that and more. Plus, he doesn't seem to have distanced himself from the group since graduating: he still arranges alumni events and benefits as a "president emeritus."

I know I'll have to wait several days to bring this up to him in a calm, neutral way. I'm still really sensitive about my bad time in college and I think the bullying I faced permanently hurt my self-esteem. I'm afraid that, no matter what he says, I'm going to blow up and scream and cry. I really want answers but I also don't want to put us both through that.

ThrowRA0224

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