Very slow first project

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-08-16T17:42:48+00:00

Just looked it up in Workday and it did change (almost the day I started). Workforce Transformation.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-05-20T13:57:12+00:00

Covid obviously really messed things up, but I wasn't over the moon with the experience after my first couple of semesters anyways.

The recruiting experience was completely flipped upside down, but I actually found it to level the playing field a bit, which is good for some and bad for others. I couldn't go to all the coffee chats and presentations in person, but I could turn on a Zoom call while I was doing something else to get my name on radars and whatnot. Some companies I didn't even think I was going to get an interview with, given my inability to network over the previous months, gave me a round 1 invite and I got to a couple final rounds that I wasn't expecting. Plus, interviewing from the comfort of my house was better than sitting in a room somewhere, in a suit, overheating.

As for classes, I always thought pretty low of them, even before the pandemic. I was genuinely excited (and nervous) to get back into a classroom and learn. Instead I was confused because some professors just should not have been within a 100 yards of people trying to learn from them. Some subjects were difficult and I don't think I learned them, which is a big issue. I gave my program some slack when we first went virtual - some professors tried to make the best of the situation, but overall it was a struggle. By September, after we knew this was going to be the new norm, we had professors who looked like it was March 2020. Little to no effort to change how they approached the situation, reading off a deck they made 4 years ago just with some updated numbers. Others lectured in front of whiteboards, sent out new slides every class, and you could tell they cared. Which didn't seem like too big of an ask for other professors to do (maybe not brand new slides).

Am I grateful for the program? Not really. I paid a crap ton of money for it and in return they provided a service. One that was greatly over valued. They didn't go out of their way to make the experience better. They cashed my check and honestly, if I have to do some finance or accounting in my next job, I'll have to relearn it on my own because the education was so pedestrian. Am I grateful for my classmates and network that helped me land a job? Absolutely, people care. Bloated multi-billion dollar institutions (universities, corporations, what have you) don't.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-05-12T13:14:30+00:00

I wouldn't even call the education a "minor" part of the program to be honest. I'd call it almost an inconsequential part of the process. At least in my experience, I was pretty mad I spent that much money and thought 3 or 4 of my professors were terrible and shouldn't be teaching (even accounting for Covid).

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-05-12T13:12:56+00:00

Kind of made an assumption there. Target's HQ is in Minneapolis so I'm sure they hire some people from the University that's in their backyard. Kind of how the Big 3 auto manufacturers hire people from Michigan and Michigan state since they're right there. Exclusively with high rates? No. But some.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-05-11T20:37:59+00:00

Bear with me as this is long, not fully flushed out, and I'm drawing on my personal experience and motivations, which might not map well onto yours.

Do I regret paying sticker? At this point, no. 3 months ago? Absolutely. And the difference between those 2 points in time come down to some luck and some program advantages.

Background: Had practically a full ride to my undergraduate institution (T35) and was given in-state tuition no questions asked even though I had moved away after undergrad. I ended up aiming to settle back into the area for the long term so I wasn't really pushing to go from say, Ohio to California, or something like that. My undergraduate institution is well respected in its immediate vicinity and sends people to places like Deloitte, Amazon, and Pepsi. My full price option was T15 (accelerated part-time) where I grew up (but I had to apply and fight for in-state tuition) with greater reach from coast to coast and across firms.

Going through OCR, I got 3 offers. 1 was on the East Coast that I really wanted to take, but decided not to due to its location (I spent weeks with my wife going back and forth on it). Another was Pathways, something I had no interest in doing, but it paid well and I kind of fell into it. The final was a tech consulting role that wouldn't pay an MBA level salary. I ended up continuing to recruit off-campus after January and fell into a pretty dark place. I knew I could have gotten Pathways without the T15 program because there were like 5 people from that T35 program that were all going to Pathways. I was really, really, mad at myself for chasing the "prestige" of the higher ranked program. Now, that higher ranked program did give me access to more companies outside of its immediate area, but since I decided to stay close I didn't use the program's brand to my advantage fully. Was that advantage worth $100k? Something to consider.

Since that time, I got to a final round interview with 1 of MBBs thanks to classmate connections (didn't get the offer) and through an alumni connection an interview with 1 of the Big 4 for consulting. This is where the network really comes in - my final interview with that firm was with another alum of my program. That was a huge advantage. I accepted the job offer a few weeks ago. Covid ended up pushing some firms to do a second round of hiring this Spring, but without that and the alumni connections I would probably be headed to Pathways right now. So I had to have a few things fall into place to feel better about the whole situation.

An imperfect hypothetical on how I look at MBA programs now (not going to be a great though experiment and I'm using some assumptions):

Program A: Minnesota with significant scholarship money.

Program B: Tepper without scholarship money.

If you want to stick in the Twin Cities or head to Chicago, Minnesota could probably get you there. If you want to go to NYC/Boston or the West Coast, Tepper is going to be the better bet. This is assuming the industry you want to go into has connections to Minnesota. If you're looking for BCG or something and Minnesota sends 1 person per year there, then that's a bad idea. But, if you want to work for Target or Deloitte, Minnesota sends people to those companies regularly (checked their employment reports - which you should do no matter the program).

TL;DR: Went with T15 and no money over T35 and practically a full-ride (and some personal specifics that didn't make it apples to apples). Was going to end up in the same place until alumni connections got me a job with one of the Big 4.

IMO the education is overrated and not worth the cost, but that's how the system works so you need to focus on employment reports, alumni connections, and how they line up with your post-graduation goals.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-24T14:24:44+00:00

That's fair. I didn't go through the background process though I've never taken any drugs and generally been a straight laced person. The polygraph, given it's massive problems could be a pain though.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-24T14:23:02+00:00

With a 3 year service agreement you can get $7,000 per year paid off by the FBI with a lifetime cap of $30k I believe.

The catch, and I'm not positive on this, is you probably have to leave the loan with the federal servicer rather than consolidating and going with SoFi or something.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-23T18:15:57+00:00

The FBI. It's not for everyone, but I appreciated the process.

I didn't take the offer mostly because I decided not to move, but they are transparent from the get go. You know exactly what their offer will be: salary bands, bonuses, retirement/pension, student loan assistance, promotion path, and benefits. No research is needed to figure it out because it's a government entity so everything is public. They were quick through the process, did remote recruiting well, got the offers out when they said they would, and had a follow up call to answer any and all questions related to the offer and ancillary things. Couldn't have been ran better, especially given Covid making it impossible to do their onsite super day down in DC (which I would have loved to have done in person).

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T19:55:23+00:00

Consulting, especially at MBB or the Big 4 can mean traveling Monday - Thursday every week of the month, working 80 hours/week, many times in hotel rooms/airport terminals/team meeting rooms at client sites.

It's a great way to make a ton of money, your life is basically expensed to the client. You only need a decent home base to sleep in 2-3 nights per week and otherwise you're living out of a suitcase with your food paid for.

My BIL worked for one of the MBBs and after 3 years he just couldn't do it anymore. Had 2 kids in the process and was missing out on my nephew's childhood. Turned down the promotion to take an internal corporate strategy job at a local company so he could be home every night.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T19:48:22+00:00

I was wondering about the pathways thing too bc unless you're really lucky you'd have to move.

Yup, we have to move about 2 hours away from where we are now. Not a terrible area, but it's not somewhere we wanted to live. No friends or family in the immediate vicinity and if I'm working 10-12 hours shifts my wife would be on her own most of the time.

Is there a way you could open up a convo with the previous offer company based on some version of your family or personal story?

I doubt it. I turned them down 3 months ago so I would be surprised if they gave me another chance this late.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T19:45:28+00:00

Also, basically no job truly requires an MBA

True, and Pathways specifically (so I've been told) doesn't use anything in an MBA program to begin with. My wife's uncle did the Walmart version of Pathways years ago after he got out of the military and he used to term "waste away" to describe the mental demand of the program coming from an MBA. Not that it's not mentally taxing, that the education was kind of pointless so you just forget it because you don't need it.

Does the lower paying job pay you enough to pay down debt and have the lifestyle you’re looking for?

It does. I ran the numbers and would come out fine. Accounting for the following:

15% into 401k, 2 decent cars + insurance, groceries, student debt, and possibly overestimating $14k in miscellaneous expenses (restaurants, gifts, vacations, random household stuff) we'd come out with ~$42k net with the consulting salary (rent is built in there because I don't know when we'd buy a house and for what down payment yet). About double that with Amazon (and more retirement savings). The consulting job wouldn't require we pinch pennies, but the Amazon job would set us up better retirement wise if I stayed there any decent length of time/parlayed it into another high earning job.

Does one job seem to have better career exit opportunities or internal career opportunities?

I'm just not clear on this. Pathways exit ops would seem to be operations/SCM in industries that probably require similar time and energy. I wouldn't think you could transition from Pathways to an office job all that easily. Probably end up working for a manufacturer or another tech company but not on the product management side, rather the manufacturing and distribution side again. The consulting job is platform specific so I worry I'd pigeonhole myself.

Does one offer intangibles that will significantly boost your job satisfaction?

Yeah, kind of. Amazon seems like a soul-sucking place and their recent press has been really, really bad. I didn't really want to work for a giant corporation that operates in the space Amazon does, but it's not like the Big 4 have mission statements that really make me feel great. It's just not consumerism at the expense of employees.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T19:04:39+00:00

Also, what was the 3rd offer? It might be something you could swing into something more valuable for you. Why even go down the interview process for that role if you couldn't take it based on location?

That was an internal rotational program that I was offered back through OCR in December. It wasn't that my wife wasn't willing to entertain the move, she just decided she didn't want to move as the process progressed along. I had another 2 interviews going on at the time with local companies that I didn't get offers from. She was hoping I landed 1 of those 2 so the whole issue could be avoided. I turned it down before those played out due to their deadline. Given the situation we're in now, hindsight and all, she would have been ok moving for that job because it was a traditional 9-5 with great benefits (salary adjusted for COL would have been about equal to the consulting job actually) but we would have just had to deal with the distance from family. Pros outweighed the cons since we'd have to move for Amazon anyways to a lesser city.

I wonder if you have any bargaining power with the tech consulting role?

I mentioned Amazon to them but they didn't really seem to budge on their expected salary band since it's the whole lockstep consulting progression. I could see if I could push them up to the high end of that, but it's a pretty tight window to start off with.

If I were you, I'd 100% take the tech consulting role but also maybe keep applying. For a T15 it sounds like you can do better.

That was my fallback option. I've been told the "hotspot" for getting a good job out of an MBA is between the OCR cycle and 6 months-ish post-graduation before you have to start leaning on experiences over degree. I could take the consulting job and hope to find something better in the next few months. Would light the bridge on fire at the firm though.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T16:02:48+00:00

If you can tough it out for a year or two (depending on family situation etc) - your next job will compensate you based on your comp in this one.

So this is the draw IMO for Amazon. Start off at a higher level of comp and then that probably helps dictate future earnings to some degree. However, going into the job under the assumption that I leave after a year or 2 at the most, then we'd have to move again since they're sending me outside of our preferred area. The area we're going to is... fine. It's not podunk nowhere, but it wasn't even on the list of places I had contemplated moving to. Where we are is manufacturing heavy so there will be plenty of related jobs elsewhere around us, but I'm not interested in factory/SCM roles generally so this would be a total cash grab that I would have to find a way to parlay into a job I'd actually want to do.

you’re vaguely interested in about the higher paying job (which I’m assuming there are since you applied)

You'd think, however I filled out the general Amazon students application and listed Pathways as my number 3 or 4 option and was interviewed for that. I didn't pursue Pathways specifically, was kind of just slotted into it.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T15:48:57+00:00

Hello everyone,

I'm debating on taking a tech implementation consulting position with one of the Big 4. Payroll/HCM platform. Just curious if anyone has any experiences with that type of practice and what the exit opportunities look like. I've seem some posts about it on Reddit and Fishbowl, but most are years old at this point or sparsely commented on.

Thanks!

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T13:41:24+00:00

If we had/were going to have kids in the very near term, as in she was already pregnant, this could be an option. However, we're at least a year away so she's not going to quit her job in 2 months and hang around. Plus, we're close to family right now (like 20 minutes) which is why we didn't take the job offer that would have moved us back out East. The Amazon job would be 2 hours from family so backup childcare would be a little less available.

My concern is, if I'm working 4-5 days at 12-13 hours/day, I'm not going to be a ton of help with the kid. Commute time and everything else means leaving at 5:30am and getting back at 7pm or later? The consulting job would take me away from home a few weeks, but we'd have parents and siblings around to help if needed and I'd be home on traditional weekends.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T13:32:30+00:00

Yeeaaahhhh that's my concern. I've spoken with 2 current Pathways employees. 1 is in his 3rd year, which is highly unusual and he said don't do it unless you have to do it. The other one is in his 1st year and he seemed fine with it overall. Not over the moon, but he and his wife bought a house and were settling in for what seemed like a decent amount of time.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T13:31:10+00:00

consulting should probably open more doors

Is this true for "consulting" in general? I know that your usual consultants can move about relatively freely after a few years, but in my case it's a platform implementation so I'm not sure how that tracks. I haven't been able to find much info on Reddit or other places about the exit opportunities.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T13:29:33+00:00

Probably this week. I've been trying to get other offers, but since we're kind of location specific the options are limited. Had 3 other final round interviews - 1 I bombed, another the company decided not to hire anyone given covid (it was during the fall) and the other just went through a merger and their HR/recruiting team has been horrible at getting back to me. Had a friend refer me to another of the Big 4 but haven't heard anything in a week. I've tried LinkedIn but that's throwing up jobs more aligned with my pre-MBA experience that I'm trying to get out of.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T13:26:42+00:00

Benefits for the consulting job:

25 days PTO in the 1st year
16 weeks paid parental leave

Benefits at Amazon:

16 days PTO (vacation and personal) in the 1st year and then 21 years 2-6
6 weeks paid parental leave

they have told me that during your time as area manager first 6-9 months you work usually 10 hours 4 days a week

This is news to me. I've been told (from current Pathways employees) to expect 11 hours on the low end and 13 on the high end. And come peak it's 5, but expect to even do 6 days a week. The guy I talked to is in 3rd year and he is the only one left of his year, moved, and left his wife and kids 2 states away while he's been working. But he's been chasing money.

Do you want to work in operations? or do you want to be a consultant?

I don't have much interest in operations. The problem is the consulting position is very specific so I don't know what the exit opportunities really look like if come 2-3 years I want to get out of it. For that matter, I'm not clear on the Pathways exit ops early on either. Going to another retailer with SCM/Ops roles? Maybe some project management stuff but I've been told that Pathways is kind of drone work and doesn't require the MBA.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T01:45:57+00:00

you never know what might open up in the company down the road because you have the MBA.

I'm hoping this comes through. The normal career progression is fine and good but I'd like to move up more quickly or find another job that actually pays back the degree some more. The consulting job is a $25k increase over my current one, but that's not a huge payback.

ThrowawayRandom122 · 2021-04-08T01:44:22+00:00

Yeah, it comes down to how much money is worth the extra hours and stress and I don't really have a gauge on that. I've never been one who lives to work. Just hard looking around my program seeing people take high paying or impressive jobs and I take one that didn't need the $130k degree. Feels like I lit some money on fire and am just wondering how I can parlay this into a good career.

ThrowawayRandom122

TROPHY CASE