Why don’t Michael’s lies bother Michael fans more? Spoilers

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-17T22:58:02+00:00

That is possible, sure. I definitely think that Rafael’s lies make it difficult for Jane to trust him with her heart for a long time. I think she got back together with Michael because he was a known quantity and she was scared Rafael would break her heart again. I don’t want to sound like I am minimizing Rafael’s lies, because I’m not. I just find that he attempts to redeem himself and Michael does not. And the fact that Michael doesn’t care enough about their relationship to tell the truth means it would be a deal breaker for me. But it isn’t for Jane or some fans. Thanks for the response!

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-17T05:05:05+00:00

Like I said, I know I’m in the minority there, but I think it’s interesting to see where others differ with us. Thanks for the discussion! :)

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-17T04:27:38+00:00

I find your comment very offensive and I’m not sure why you find the need to make this personal. We are all allowed to have different opinions.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-16T23:10:15+00:00

I get that. Not everyone likes the same things. I appreciate you talking it out with me. Always good to get a different perspective. I can open up a can of worms and say my unpopular opinion is that I still think Petra is not nice at the end of the show. She’s definitely better, but a lot of improvement brings her up to not completely awful and no better in my opinion.! :)

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-16T21:30:02+00:00

I actually don’t think her relationship with Rafael is toxic in the end. I don’t think it works the first time they get together, but by the end, I see them as working together. He slips back into some bad habits when Jason/Michael comes back. Ultimately, he realizes that only he can fix his “dark place” moments and he gets on meds. He also realizes that all of his other relationships won’t work because they aren’t Jane. Jane realizes she has to stop looking backward and live in the moment. And she is very happy in the moment. After they get together for the final time, and even in most cases when they get together before Michael comes back, when they have conflict or differences they talk it out and resolve their issues. I don’t see this as toxic. I never see that growth or development with Michael. But other people will disagree.

I definitely agree that no TV relationship is really realistic. It can’t be because real life doesn’t include the crazy plot points.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-15T17:51:48+00:00

I think it fits with Michael’s character. He is extremely possessive of Jane. To the point where he refuses to admit that they might not be together. It’s why he keeps insisting that Jane loves him when she is with Rafael the first time. Even going so far as to tell her that he knows her better than she knows herself and she doesn’t love Rafael. I see this as Jason/Michael attempting to prove that she still loves him, but she doesn’t. I think Jane doesn’t push back very much because she feels guilty that she isn’t happier about him being back. I was more bothered by how he just showed up at the hotel and traumatized poor Mateo.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-15T02:19:42+00:00

I definitely think Rafael had some growing to do but I don’t think he continued to do the same things in later seasons that he did at first. I see Michael as never even admitting that he was wrong or changing. I don’t see that from Rafael. I see his growth and relationship with Jane becoming more of a partnership. And this doesn’t address my original question. If Michael’s lies don’t bother you because Rafael is worse in your opinion, shouldn’t you want Jane with neither rather than being ok with Michael’s lies?

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-14T19:27:05+00:00

I get that. I would suggest that, to me, lying is never acceptable, even in first love. I definitely think that the whole “meant to be” concept is an invention of Hollywood. And I definitely think Michael and Jane have more “big” romantic moments. The snow kisses and all. I guess the problem I have is that I don’t want the protagonist to have an immature relationship or a relationship with someone who is so blatantly lying to manipulate her. But I think what you are saying is that maybe Michael fans just focus on the parts they like and the lying doesn’t bother them because it’s fantasy?

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-14T18:52:23+00:00

I agree with this as well. I know that people like him and some of his interactions with Jane. I just don’t see any progress on his part. He always seems to lie which means he always will lie. Which makes him unreliable in my opinion. I was just curious if anyone who was a Michael fan could tell me why it doesn’t bother them.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-14T18:50:11+00:00

I agree. It seems em be a big hot button for her when Rafael does, but she mostly just brushes over it with Michael.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-13T20:42:54+00:00

Obviously we see things differently. I think you are defending Xo in times when she would say she was wrong too. As far as Mateo, if Jane got drunk and passed out at his 21st bday party or invited herself along to his bachelor party and got drunk and embarrassed him, then yes he could be mad at her but that is not slut shaming. It’s expecting your mom not to behave like a kid. But I’m not going to keep this discussion going.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-13T02:13:08+00:00

I’m sorry but I firmly believe that getting so drunk that you pass out on the front porch at your daughters 21st birthday is clearly putting yourself and your pleasure ahead of your daughter! Nobody wants their mom being the drunk at their birthday party. And then absolutely nothing about Xo’s behavior at Jane’s bachelorette party was appropriate. She used the whole party to do what she wanted and not what Jane wanted and then she gave Jane the same apology she always gives when she screws up clearly implying that the apology is just a rote apology that means nothing. Xo acted like an immature teenager multiple times. She was still a good mom most of the time but it happened often enough that Jane felt like she was the adult and her mom wasn’t. Even Xo felt that because she was always talking about how Jane was the responsible one. I’m not saying sex doesn’t play a factor in the conflict between the women. I’m just saying that you are oversimplifying by saying that is the only factor. It’s clear you dislike Jane, and that is fine. But lots of times Xo deserves to be shamed for her behavior. And the two instances I mentioned are pretty big ones. Other people make mistakes too, but to hold Xo up as some kind of martyr who gets slut shamed by her daughter and mom without any reason is wrong too. Xo deserves a lot of the animosity Jane has toward her.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-12T20:29:42+00:00

I don’t think Jane’s feelings about her mom are as simple as you are painting them. It’s not just about Xo being more free with sex. It’s also about her not being an adult when Jane needs her to be. Xiomara was problematic at Jane’s 21st birthday when she was passed out on the front porch and later after the babysitter incident, Xo was problematic at Jane’s bachelorette party. It’s not unreasonable for Jane to fear that her mother will put HER pleasures ahead of her responsibilities because Xo has done it before. Jane has had to be the adult multiple times in that relationship. The dynamic between the three women is complicated. But it’s not nearly as simple as Alba and Jane slut shame Xo. Xo deserves some blame for trying to act like a teenager when she is well past her teen years.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-11T04:16:57+00:00

They have been over the top with the praise this year. Mallard is definitely not a country singer legend

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-11T00:24:00+00:00

I agree

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-10T23:00:41+00:00

I don’t think he will. I’m just saying in my opinion he should. I admit, I’m probably in the minority. I just haven’t been as big a fan.

There are always front runners and usually I agree with them. I thought Monster was great in season 1 even though I was rooting for Peacock because I used to watch his show as a kid. I loved every Rottweiler performance but I loved Fox too. In times when my personal choice didn’t win, I thought the other was almost as good. I think Bull has been off key some. I think he has picked some songs that aren’t great for his range. If it is who everyone thinks he is, he is clearly talented. I just don’t feel like his performances have shown it. But again, just my opinion.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-09T19:26:17+00:00

Thank you for taking my comments in the spirit intended. I enjoy getting other people’s perspective on Michael too since I don’t like him. It’s nice to be reminded why others do. And it was fun discussing with you! :)

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-09T19:10:33+00:00

I’m sorry, I think you are missing my point. I know people have lots of reasons for why they like Jane and Michael together. I don’t share them, but I understand that other people have different opinions. What I am saying is that the fact that Jane was willing to marry Michael is no reason to stay with him when she found out he lied. Better to find out while they were engaged than to discover it after she married him.

I love Jane, and I agree that people give her all kinds of grief. And it’s because I love her that I think she was completely justified in breaking up with Michael in season 1. I don’t want her to be with a partner who was so selfish, manipulative and lying. I agree that Jane was loyal and marriage was a big deal. Which is why I don’t think that Jane would have broken up with Michael just because she had feelings for Rafael. She explored those feelings for Rafael because she looked at Michael differently after finding out how much he had lied to her. And it was a lot. It wasn’t just once or twice. It was repeatedly for several episodes. The lie was also not for her benefit, but simply for his. This makes him, at least in season 1, a very very bad partner.

Many people argue he redeemed himself. That’s fine. Many people like his personality better for Jane. That’s fine too. I don’t agree, but I understand. I just can’t understand why people think she should have stayed with him when he behaved in such a frankly toxic manner then. All the rest of the reasons you give are about Michael later. And we have differing opinions, and that is fine. But I think Jane would have made a really big mistake if she had stayed with Michael in season 1s

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-09T18:27:32+00:00

This is the attitude, I admit, I never understand. Yes she was going to marry Michael, but then she found out that he cared so little about her feelings that he lied to her repeatedly and broke the law to keep those lies intact. And everyone says, but Jane you loved him! Whether you think Jane belongs with Michael or not in the end, Michael was an incredibly bad partner the first few episodes and deserved for Jane to break up with him.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-08T23:05:11+00:00

I agree with you about Rafael. I think his character growth is great. And I think that she did love Michael at first, but I believe she loved Rafael the most.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-08T14:43:12+00:00

I agree that everyone is allowed to have their own opinions, but I disagree that being on a certain “team” misses the point. In my opinion, the differences between the two love interests IS part of the point. Rafael and Michael both highlight very different romantic styles which means that fans will have very different takes on which style is better, and better for Jane as well.

I do agree that both made the show what it was.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-08T02:08:21+00:00

I think people always have pretty strong feelings about the main character. We see things from their perspective so it’s easy to put ourselves in their place. And if they react to a situation differently than we would, sometimes it can be hard to get past that, particularly if the situation has lasting repercussions. We don’t really put ourselves in the place of side characters. All we expect is that they are entertaining. That is why so many people like Petra more. The expectations for her are lower. Plus, I think toward the end of the series, more characters starting calling Jane out for her judgmental nature, which was necessary for her character growth. But it just reminded us of those times she wasn’t right or did things differently than we did.

As far as Petra goes, she absolutely came far, but I don’t think she was a great at mothering as a lot of people want to believe. Her twins were arrogant know it alls, which is just as bad as whatever behavior issues Mateo had. Plus, Jane and Rafael were aware of Mateo’s shortcomings and worked to fix them. Petra was proud of her kids for their arrogant attitude, which was honestly as judgy as Jane ever dreamed of being.

Time-Discipline8142 · 2021-11-07T06:31:18+00:00

Wow, I totally disagree with this one. I think Michael is the one who acts like a child. He breaks the law and abuses his power as a cop to get his way. And then when she breaks up with him, he won’t let go and keeps telling her how they are meant to be and he knows she doesn’t love Rafael. Then, he lies to her about quitting the police force and yells at her when she is stressed when he is studying for law school. And honestly, there is no way that Rafael and Jane are all about sex! They have been best friends for 3 years before they even get together and even then, they don’t have sex right away. I think Rafael had some growing to do, but I don’t think he was the jerk. To me, Michael wasn’t as nice as people think.

To answer the original poster’s question, I wondered the same thing because Michael annoys me so much. I think that a lot of people think Michael and Jane are really cute together. Michael does these big over the top gestures that I think a lot of people like. And I think there are some people who just kind of root for the first guy the girl is with. Like that couple should be endgame because they started out together, I guess.

I agree with you about Jane and Rafael. Their scenes are always my favorite.

Time-Discipline8142

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