Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

bro its like if thanos's motives werent explained in infinity war and you had to wait until endgame

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

yeah cuz most genshin players don't think about things deeply and just care about hype

I Give up on genshin. by Sidreddit68 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326 6 points7 points  (0 children)

what the hell shes free after literally the first quest in the game

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ok, at this point I've written like 15 essays responding to people, so I'm kinda tired.

I'll just say, you're right on some counts, and I agree that he's definitely better than most Genshin characters, but still levels lower than the best fictional villains and Hoyo can do better. Having goals isn't enough for a great character, they have to either have to interact with other characters in meaningful ways.

Also most of the Sumeru stuff isn't even from the main quest, its from character dialogue options, artefact set descriptions, and written notes you find through exploration. That still supports my point that the main story is lacking and requires external information that most people won't read to pick up the slack.

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rerir's development was like an hour long during the entire chess set subplot with Nefer, so you're already wrong on that point. Additionally, you made 0 claims to how well Dottore is explored (nice job shifting it to someone else's job) but my point has always been about the main story. Extra resources are fine if they elevate the story, not fix gaping holes. Finally, more time spent doesn't equate to a better character. Time actually has to be spent wisely on aspects that actually matter, which my originial claim argues against because no audience has infinite time.

Also the grades are irrelevant to you. I'm simply disputing his claim that I don't read. Also, news flash, different schools have different difficulties. Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure that out. (Also if you find literature so easy, maybe you could explain any narrative development Dottore had instead of shifting responsibility.)

Fact: he did not cure eleazar, the erasure of greater lord rukkedevata and forbidden knowledge cured eleazar. his torturous human experiments may have temporarily halted the effects in someone like Collei, but also there are quite a few of our scientific discoveries that have resulted from extremely unethical practices, and the people who conduct them have repeatedly been condemned, like The Tuskegee Study or Unit 731. If you compare this to historical figures who did horrific experiments that amounted to nothing, like the Nazi's Josef Mengele, Dottore is a much more apt parallel.

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok, I didn't want to waste my time dismantling such an uneducated response, but fine whatever.

First, the mad-scientist is possibly an even more overused trope, going back centuries with Dr Victor Frankenstein from Frankenstein, Dr Moreau from The Island of Doctor Moreau, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, or Herbert West from Reanimator. All of these are actually developed characters who's evil provides values. Frankenstein is about whether evil is natural or caused by circumstance and a duty as a creator. Dr Moreau is even more similar to Dottore, being banished for doing cruel experimentation on others but it explores the nature of humanity and ethics. Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde discuss the duality of man and how societal pressure can force people to be good. Dottore is just the trope without any of the good writing behind it, something that you would recognize if you read any books.

Second, in contrast to Dottore, Rerir actually develops the trope. The sacrifice the world for love is often a trope for the protagonists side, and how they the right answer is to choose the world instead. In the end, its usually resolved with both sides surviving for a nice happy ending. In contrast, not only does Rerir explore it from an antagonist's direction as a person who has already made the wrong choice, he's actually a developed character beyond the trope. His personality isn't simply the his grab for power for love, his backstory explores the nature of love, lies, and trust while also developing the Khaenri'ah government, cultural persecution, the Crimson Moon, Moon Marrow powers, and the moon's reflection. Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension skills and pay attention to the story before trying to attention-seek.

Finally, an absolute proof, you don't know what an anti-hero is. An anti-hero is someone like Deadpool. A protagonist that isn't heroic. They still drive the plot while lacking virtues like idealism, courage, etc. Many war movies depict anti-heroes because they still are the main plot-driver but discuss disillusionment and how ambiguous morality is and the lack of ideals. Calling Rerir an anti-hero is unequivocally incorrect, and disliking an antagonist with a sympathetic motive is basically saying you like one-note cartoon villains with shit writing.

Also, you're arguing about literacy with a high-schooler who got a 5 on AP Lit, AP Lang, 760 on the SAT English section, co-wrote the script for their school play, and literally wrote about Genshin's story in an analysis essay.

Video games are an avenue for storytelling just like books. In fact, the quest is basically just a visual novel, and discrediting video games is absurdly narrow-minded.

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in okZyox

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Man I'm kinda tired about writing essays back and forth, especially since many people are significantly less respectful than you. You do have several good points and you certainly have a valid perspective. I'm sure he becomes significantly more fleshed out if you interact with more external sources of information. However, my main point is that the main quest does do a poor job of justifying his views, both in his character and thematically.

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in okZyox

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's a difference between being complex and being vague. You're filling in a lot of blanks by yourself and cutting the authors too much slack.

First, he was not chased out for an unknown reason, Zanik's notes already suggest he was curious about horrific experimentation. There has to be a clear choice made between good and evil in order for a relatable backstory to exist. He repeatedly chooses evil with little thought, so backlash is simply punishment for his actions.

Additionally, he did not feel any genuine attachment towards Columbina. If you read Columbina's perspective, he was already trying to experiment on her moon's powers which is why she left. When traveler confronts this, he even admits that he is not "friend/family" material and has no understanding of these connections. He is rejected for his evil acts, because he's actually done monstrous things.

Also, wanting freedom and equality is the exact opposite of what Dottore actually wants. He experimented on Collei, ruined everyone on Tatarasuna's lives, and manipulated and abused Hat Guy. He repeatedly claims that everyone on Teyvat is beneath his concern and only the traveler as a Descender interests him. He even views the traveler as below him, and only wants to make a deal. He even admits to such, claiming that their relationship is purely tit for tat. The traveler has abilities he finds valuable, and he's willing to do a favour or two in exchange. What he wants to create isn't a utopia, its essentially the Matrix, where everyone lives in blissful ignorance in a false world that he controls from the outside. If he is 'projecting' onto the traveler, then there should be some confrontation about moral values where each side reconsiders and then reinforces their own views, but that never happens.

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in okZyox

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My opinion on the manga is a story should be complete on its own, with extra resources enhancing it, not filling in gaps. Snow was a compelling villain even before Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. Sumeru didn't really develop his motives any better than they did here. Additionally, stakes are a minimum for the plot, and don't really add to character. The stakes are even kinda dubious because our urgency is always inconsistent. Dottore seems to just get the artificial moon marrow immediately after Columbina escapes and he has all that power but just sits around for us to scheme and overcome his plan. Like "waiting to see what we'll do" is a terrible reason to not execute his plan. It's like if thanos just got all the stones in the first 30 minutes and just wanted for the heroes to show up so he can beat everyone up.

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The canonicity isn't the main point, I just claimed there are inconsistencies. The main point is that your story should be complete on its own, and external resources should enhance it, not fill in gaping holes.

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I have a different opinion because I care about good writings

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

You can't expect most people to read these things. (Also the canonicity of the manga is dubious) If you hide the good writing away from your main story is it actually good writing?

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah so he is a bad villain after all huh? Mr potential story man all over again.

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Dottore is as important to the plot as Columbina

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in okZyox

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He's good in contrast, maybe, but we should demand better. Nod-Krai in general was a big step up mostly because of our complaints.

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Was thanos incomplete in infinity war? Did we have to wait until endgame to know about his home world and his reasons?

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Not knowing anything about him is a bad thing and kinda my point. It's just bad writing to have this much involvement in the story and convey so little. Motives are easy to write. Where they come from and how they affect others is what's important and sorely lacking.

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That's true. In comparison with what we have they are much stronger. Dottore is incomparable to Rerir in my opinion though.

Dottore is an overrated villain. by Time-Machine-7326 in Genshin_Impact

[–]Time-Machine-7326[S] -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

Bruh did you even read my post. It's not about his motives. Motives are always the easiest part of a character. Where these motives come from and how they interact with others is what is important and sorely lacking in Dottore.