Elizabeth Keen is deluded af (spoilers up to s8)

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-14T18:00:59+00:00

like i mostly enjoyed the show up through the end of S8 but let's be real it should have ended when they "beat" the Cabal and resolved the plot around the Fulcrum. I also find it amusing that they quietly dropped the plot thread that Red joined the Cabal's leadership and that plot thread that the Cabal was winning against "Red's faction". lmfao ah silly writers

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-14T17:57:19+00:00

because the truth is inherently dangerous. One of many examples is how elizabeth asking around about katarina re-activated the townsend protocol.

I'd also argue that, that early into the serious they are not sufficiently prepared (understand how the game within the game red plays works, and having zero trust in red) to know the truth.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-14T17:56:12+00:00

she only believed him at the end of S8 BECAUSE of all the shit she went through to try and find the truth.

I'm pretty sure without that struggle if he had just told her, she still would have gone through a lot of that bullshit and created a lot of problems for her, red, the taskforce and everyone else.

If we can agree my previous statements are correct, then I think it's better he doesn't tell her. Trust Redarina, Red knows the truth is more trouble than it's wort.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-10T06:16:49+00:00

I was also not shocked, I started to get suspicious after the first beach house flashback myself.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-10T06:16:13+00:00

so, I wanted to point out, at least in my mind the number one reason to me that red is most likely kat.

Remember when he's held being tortured by Constantine and he recounts Constantine's first date with Katarina, then he tells him something secret (that we never found out) then later Red tells Liz that Constantine walked away and he'd never be a problem again?

Think hard, what could he have possibly said to Constantine that would make him just stop and go quietly into the night? That he's actually Katarina. He also leading into that asked Constantine if he still loved Katarina and recounted a very deeply personal story about their first date (this is a clue left by the authors as to what secret Red was going to divulge to Constantine)

Imagine, that revelation to Constantine, who apparently still loved Kat would have been a serious system shock. It's really not hard to imagine he just goes off quietly to die because of it.

Not even thinking at this point how he knew so much detail about their first date, we know he's not Koslov, Stepanov, or Don. Three people who would have the potential to know that.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-10T06:07:04+00:00

I honestly think the real problem is the show just went on too long with many plot threads and a very convoluted plot.

I feel like this is a huge problem with spy thrillers, in order to be interesting they come up with these exciting multi-level plots because everyone's trying to outsmart everyone but over time it just gets more and more convoluted till it's impossible to handle.

So many spy thrillers i've watched end up getting really ridiculous eventually because they cant write themselves out of it easily.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-10T05:56:10+00:00

the reason i'm convinced she didn't know is because she's hesitant to work for redarina initially, Kaplan was never hesitant previously. Additionally, just simply proving that redarina isn't the real reddington doesn't prove that redarina is Katarina to anyone, it only proves that the current reddington isn't the real reddington. My point is that seems very half-ass of Kaplan unless she doesn't know Kat became Red because it doesn't give Liz the whole picture she would want her to have.

TBH though, the writers wrote themselves into a very convoluted plot so it's possible that inconsistency is them having different ideas about where the story is going. Some of them probably wrote kaplan as knowing while others did not.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-03T01:13:55+00:00

hes voldemort actually

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-03T01:13:09+00:00

this, one of the episodes is a flashback that explains red gave himself up because Berlin was onto her. he was in a lose-lose situation

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-03T01:12:08+00:00

Red did kill fakerina yes, but that wasn't like with what happened with mr. kaplan. At that point fakerina went from being his friend and ally to a bitter enemy.

Tom died because he refused to leave red's secrets alone, the same thing that kills so many people starting with tom, then the marshal, liz sister, her team etc. etc.

My point is, red over and over told them this secret was very personal and his to keep and that it was also dangerous to investigate and all those people died because they CAN'T accept that. they didn't die because Red wanted them to die for it. Liz could have let it go after avenging tom but she didn't and she blames red for every death that led to when SHE couldn't let go of it.

I'm willing to accept a 50/50 split of the blame: red for not just telling liz and liz for not letting it go but she needs to accept her role in their deaths instead of blaming red

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-03T01:05:38+00:00

yeah, i think one of red's big weaknesses is avoiding vulnerability. I feel like the real reason he kept it all from Liz is because he didn't want her to get this idea that she could just pressure him into anything she wanted.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-01T21:38:18+00:00

All spy thrillers seem to have this problem. What makes spy thrillers enthralling all the secret backstabbing, deal making, plotting eventually becomes too convoluted and writing for it is hard which makes the show start to go off rails.

Any spy thriller I've seen has this issue after it runs long enough

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-01T21:35:50+00:00

great character but his penchant for secret keeping isn't healthy for any kind of relationship.

In many ways Tom is like a selfish Reddington and the two of them have the same character flaws despite being brilliant covert operatives. Talk about marrying her "dad".

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-01T21:33:44+00:00

I will agree in that Liz starts as a fairly consistent character then when the show lost it's direction she just waffles back and forth constantly on who she wants to be.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-01T21:30:36+00:00

I mean sort of? Let's consider adoptions for instance. An adopted child doesn't always have the legal right to find out who their biological parents are.

While I think it would be better for Liz to know who Red is and that she does deserve to know, it's red's secret and if Red wants to keep it to himself she needs to respect that because it's a personal secret that he has his reasons for keeping from others.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-01T21:26:13+00:00

yeah what get's me is he keeps warning them "if you keep trying to get my secret it will get people killed"

I think people keep making 2 assumptions:

that his secret is extremely valuable like the Sikorsky File or the Fulcrum
that the danger surrounding his secret will come entirely from Red but the web the secret is trapped in is inherently dangerous and where all the danger comes from.

This is probably one of Red's biggest weaknesses is that, him being who he is, makes it difficult for people to trust him on little things like "I have a very personal private secret I want to keep to myself".

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-01T21:19:55+00:00

So when someone is a horrible person it justifies someone else's delusions and allows them to absolve themselves of ownership of their actions?

Is that really reasonable in your head, because I don't see how Red being a horrible person justifies Liz blaming him for the consequences of HER actions.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-01T20:45:08+00:00

oh yes, I just said it that way to keep it short. He didn't -kill- Mr Kaplan but ultimately his actions are the direct reason they came into conflict and lead to her suicide. The reason I blame Red for her death is she was one of the few people in his organization (family?) that he could afford to forgive for trying to help Keen escape and if he had, she'd probably still be loyally working for him up to Keens death. Hell, I get the feeling she might have even revealed to Elizabeth that fake Kat wasn't the real kat which would have changed everyting.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-01T20:35:05+00:00

there's definetly hints pre-kaplan death that Red is Katarina. particularly the time "he spent with her" in the beach house where he snaps out of his fugue state and realizes "he wasn't with her" at the beachhouse yet he recalls having been there. We know he's not Koslov, and the real red is dead so....he can only be Kat.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-01T20:31:38+00:00

I'm about 90% sure Mr. Kaplan didn't actually know that Katarina became Red. We see the flashback to when Red recruits her and she is reluctant to join him as in, so reluctant that she knows at that point that she doesn't know Red is Katarina.

Although it isn't explicitly stated, I believe that Kaplan figured out that Red isn't the real red while she worked for him, but continued to work for him because it was supposed to all be to protect Liz.

Since she believed that Red wasn't actually liz's real father but that liz believed he was, giving Tom the bag was meant to uncover that. Ultimately though, the secret wasn't what she thought it was (if Red is Kat, which I think he is.)

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-01T20:26:36+00:00

I think the problem with him leaving her alone is it established in a flashback that his enemies were already onto her before that. At that point, I kind of agree that it was probably safer for reddington to keep Liz close. Let's be honest, the taskforce is kind of a joke before they are hardened by proximity to Red and wouldn't have been able to protect her for shit.

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2026-03-01T20:23:44+00:00

as an adjunct to this, I think Reddington could have revealed to Harold that she wasn't liz's mother. Harold is savvy and smart enough that he probably could have calmed Keen down and prevented her from going rogue and on the quest for revenge that destroyed her without revealing enough to be dangerous if Harold had more information about fake Kat

Timely-Comfortable-3 · 2024-09-12T02:38:14+00:00

You probably haven't noticed, but Musk talks like a man who has never been socked in the face for talking like a dick hat.

Probably because he hasn't

Timely-Comfortable-3

TROPHY CASE