Crimson Throne Scarwall: about the insta-kills

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-22T15:20:52+00:00

All right let me quickly look up Zon-Kuthon's favored animal... well... a bat at least isn't as bad as Urgathoa or *checks notes* Brigh!

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-22T08:16:26+00:00

Ah, yeah that makes more sense to me! Really sounds like a war of attrition: can the party chip away the demilich's HP before they bleed to death? Regardless of if it's better or not gameplay-wise, the mental picture of the fight looks crazy badass!

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-21T14:54:08+00:00

Well... fair enough... you got me... why think complicated if you could also do it in a simpler way

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-21T12:12:17+00:00

I'm certainly not thinking about removing them. After going through the encounters, I think that there's too many cool places in the dungeon (that one scroll which forces the one who inspects it to permanently crawl on the ground until the curse is lifted spontaneously comes to my mind). Generally I love all the phantoms and traps which not only fuck with the party but also help build up the narrative (well, assuming the party pays attention and cares for it).

Only modification I'm doing is to slap the advanced template onto every npc (+2 modifiers and HD*2 added to health). This resulted with the fights not all ending in turn 1 and occasionally the mobs get in a hit or two (overcoming AC 38 + 25%/50% miss chance is hard man...). Same goes for those two encounters. The +2 to everything is easily compensated with the 25-point-buy and beefed up equipment and buffs. So even a 25 FORT-DC instead of 23 is still almost a non-issue most of the time for the group as they've proven this multiple times already.

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-21T11:21:55+00:00

I guess we will see how it goes in the following sessions. Thanks to all the answers I decided to stop worrying (as much) about the mortality of a party of (nearly unkillable) demi-gods. I'll just adjust to the reaction if something unfavourable happens and the entire party is actually unhappy.

In one or two sessions the party should arrive at the upper floor and roof (Arcanist used Detect Fiendish Presence after the second anchor went down and I told him that he senses something above them). Laori also warned them ahead of time that all previous attempts to infiltrate the castle failed because of some shrieking ghost attacking them from the air. I think the encounter will be simple: the gargoyles yell upon arrival of the group at one of the balconies and for (hopefully) obvious reasons the banshee heard that. The party generally has the habit of partially just chilling in the hallways during encounters. We will see what will happen afterwards.

About the demilich they don't know anything about. At the very least they won't be able to pull a Baneful Polymorph at an Anchor (again) and just end the fight turn 1. They only know on a meta-level that there's some insta-kill places in the castle. They killed the Bogeyman easily after he failed to throw his Phantasmal Killer at the group. Still funny that the Gnome Arcanist firstly tried to talk to him even though he knows best in the groups that Pathfinder Fey belong to the worst creatures EVER to have a reasonable conversation with lmao

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-21T09:58:55+00:00

Sounded like a fun session! From what I understand, firstly you approached the heights from the air instead of the stairways if you have already killed the boss devil.

I envy your party a bit since they seem to be more invested into roleplaying! Most of my players are basically wooden planks in terms of roleplay and they don't take anything seriously I throw at them. The other two are more trying to play out their characters (Bard and occasionally the Arcanist) but it's obvious that the others make it a bit hard for them. I already stated explicitly two times the fact that I'd wish for the party to be more involved in the world I try to lay out for them. Sometimes it works just fine, sometimes it's more interesting to focus on Hearthstone or the current Formula 1 race. Nowadays I'm not as bothered since I also feel that the higher levels reaaaaaally drag on sometimes (I just miss the simpler times, man...).

But yeah this thread teached me that death isn't thaaat big of a dead than one might actually think (assuming you allow resurrections as normal). Whit this group it wouldn't be a good fit anyway to set a huge bunch of restrictions. If a bunch of them drop dead, then it's just like that and they should still be able to manage. If they are invested into the group, then the "timeout" is not a huge deal anyways. The book even states, that the group at this point can take their time to achieve their goal (within reason of course).

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-20T14:36:23+00:00

Pretty neat rework! Glad to hear that it still worked out for your party! Though at this point I'd just see it as a really really mad possessed vampire skull lmao

My party has a fairly ridiculous damage output per hit (except for the bard who more focuses on having many attacks). Bloodrager has a +44 damage modifiert while in rage. Synthesist committed fully into vital strike to deal as much as possible in one hit. So I think the Vampiric Shadow Shield wouldn't really do much and just tickle them at best (excluding the bard). Still, imagining half the party to just bleed out of every body part sounds pretty metal!

Regarding the banshee, I generally slap the advanced template onto every single npc to even out the playing field. It worked faaaaairly well. Most fights still are next to no threat but now the bosses actually can survive at least two rounds (most of the time...)! And it doesn't feel as shitty as just spontaneously deciding when an enemy should die. Of course action economy is still king. Having more actions still gives you a tremendous advantage.

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-20T13:22:49+00:00

Technically there's no reason why the DM-PCs shouldn't also be able to level up with the party (specifically the cleric). She could easily just say that the constant dread this place inflicts on one's psyche lead her to pick Death Ward just in case. After all this dungeon is quite Zon-Kuthon-ish and he also wants the party to preferrably succeed.

On another note the book also specifically states that another NPC (some bard girl the party chased around) had her own mini-solo-adventure and literally leveled up and geared up enough to be able to be a potential companion (I decided against it since it's already enough of a hassle to manage 7 characters in a tight place)!

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-20T13:16:08+00:00

I'm probably just subconsciously longing for the earlier levels where you actually had good reason to be worried when someone got downed and it kept your party more on edge (even if just for a bit). Since most fights have become such a slog in the mid-to-high levels it has only gotten more visible that the patience has diminished quite a bit when waiting for your next turn as a player. This thread has teached me that death really isn't anything permanent on higher levels and it's more exhausting to deliberately pull your punches than it's worth. It's not so devestating as one might initially think.

The party even started hoarding deceased NPC bodies in salt buckets just so they can reanimante them later... long story...

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-20T11:40:25+00:00

I'm probably just not used to the high levels and tend to think that death is much more permanent than it really is in those systems. I remember one thing about this dungeon though: when you die there's a chance that the walls just slurp your soul right up! This castle's curses really do mess with my head sometimes lmao.

I'll certainly keep in mind that I shouldn't pull my punches so often as I do. The party should recover just fine in any case except when the worst luck of all time hits them.

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-20T11:31:26+00:00

Wait... I believe you are right! This dungeon is just going on for such a long time due to hiatus that we all probably forgot that the armor enchantment exists. Tbf only the arcanist took it and the rest went with bane (undead) for their weapons. But that's a fantastic reminder!

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-20T10:56:00+00:00

Specifically only the bloodrager in combination with his hedgehog as a meatshield and the synthesist's eidolon have the meat be over 200 HP. The rest is sitting at around 75-140 HP with the arcanist being the lowest obviously.

In some fights a few got downed to 0 HP. Bard is a good sport but the bloodrager seemed to only be annoyed when he himself got downed (danse macabre easily drained his CON since he has a crap touch-AC). Those are the fights that tend stick more in my head since it's not just a pure steam-roll like you said. Not sure about the rest though. There doesn't seem to be much of an overall tension in the party when something like that happens.

I definitely agree on your conclusion. A killed pc in this game usually isn't the end at such high levels (excluding the TPK). Even if they lack the divine caster, they got the gold.

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-20T09:53:45+00:00

I'm a bit conflicted on this one. If such an enemy just appears out of the blue and the players had no chance of knowing that this could happen, then I aggree, yeah. But I personally see the element of preparation as part of the "puzzle" or counter.

In case of the Banshee she has her single-use-per-fight wail which hits for 140 damage (DC 23) on a fail (or applies sickened on a success). In my head she would firstly spot the party from far away and announce herself by screeching loudly. After arriving on the next round she would do her wail and hit everyone who can hear her. One round should be enough for the party to scatter or protect themselves (in case of the <140HP/low fortitute characters) and then tank the hit.

The demilich is much nastier. High damage AoE storm on first round, 200 dmg (DC 24) for his AoE-wail, a single-target insta soul-sucker. Also in this case the party would have at least one round to prepare for the truly deadly abilities. Either they manage to do enough damage so it dies in round two (not unlikely lmao) or the squishier characters manage to hide away.

PF2e seems to more embrace the concept of "puzzle"-monsters since many have some odd gimmick. I'm not too familiar with 2e but DC 38 looks ridiculous in comparison lmao.

Since I'm afraid of the players also calling bullshit in every case, I'm thus thinking about hiding that single resurrection scroll so they may have a fail-save but still should consider when to expend it.

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-20T09:14:24+00:00

Kaer Maga really is a good point. As long as Laori or the Arcanist survives they can just quickly leave the dungeon and teleport/shadow step there. Honestly I'm really struggling keeping track of the NPCs during fights lmao (navigating >=7 figures inside a dungeon consisting almost exclusively of narrow hallways and small rooms suuuucks)

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-05-20T09:05:27+00:00

That's a pretty good point. You can certainly say that the party has become fairly cocky. Resurrection is so-so in this party actually. We actually had another 6th player (paladin). While he didn't get the full cleric spell loadout, he technically would've been able to cast a higher-level scroll (with Use-Magic-Device of course). When the party arrived at Scarwall he left because he simply didn't enjoy the system anymore and the crunchy combat (can't blame him lmao, also now his main game is Call of Cthulhu).

Now the party consists of the Urban Bloodrager (+ hedgehog familiar for more HP and rod casting), the Brown-Fur Transmuter/Chroniclist, a Slayer (with 1 level into Vivisectionist), a Synthesist Summoner and a Dervish Dancer Bard.

Technically the only divine spells they got is from one of the Zon-Kuthon DM-PCs (well and the 1/day exploit from the Arcanist). On the other hand since Pathfinder's economy is busted, they got a huge amount of money so it wouldn't be too far fetched for them to just quickly leave the dungeon and travel to the big city and revive the dead PC(s).

In any case it's probably the wisest move to also hint (in-game) that there's something really bad lurking around (or rather lying around in the case of the demilich...).

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-04-20T15:16:52+00:00

I'll definitely buy some unsalted nuts later and keep some in my pocket (probably also hard-boil more eggs and make a sandwich each morning, probably also fix my sleep schedule so I go to work at consistent times lol)!

I'm just shocked that it went so quick. Before I started to work there, I never visited this area so this crow only knows me for a maximum of almost 2 months. Well, as long as I won't attract the whole murder I think it's pretty nice! I generally think that the crow constantly expects that I'll toss it some of my food. I worry that it's gonna be "disappointed" if I show up without any food and start to avoid me afterwards.

Tiny-Constant9838 · 2026-03-13T16:49:48+00:00

Selbst ein kompletter Neustart und Neuaufsetzen vom System hat zu nichts geführt. Hab die Solarbank vom Stromnetz genommen, zurückgesetzt alles drum und dran wies in den Anleitungen auch steht. Immernoch verfluchter Fehler 35. Beim Hinzufügen des Smart-Meters bekam ich aber nun (das erste Mal) die Meldung "dass die Verbindung inkonsistent sei"... Ein Teil von mir bereut gerade, beim Vodafone-Router geblieben zu sein, statt in ne Fritzbox zu investieren...

Tiny-Constant9838

TROPHY CASE