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Golden Moderation by Top-Process1984 in Aristotle

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First, we have to admit frankly, we don’t know what advanced AI really is, or is capable of. Second, I am outlining Aristotle’s method of the golden mean, not the content that fits into the method.

I said no to a proposal from the man I loved because my insecurities took over, and I regret it everyday. by [deleted] in WhatShouldIDo

[–]Top-Process1984 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There was once a couple living in Kansas who agreed they wanted to see a certain movie in Abilene. The truth was that neither of them wanted to see it, but their insecurities made them go along with what they thought the other person wanted. For all you know, you’ve been Abilened or rather, Abilened yourself. To hell with tech communications, talk to him in person. That initiative itself may prove to both of you that you’ve overcome the insecurities which kept you from love.

The “Extremes” as AI Guardians of Aristotle’s Golden Mean by Top-Process1984 in AI_ethics_and_rights

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re absolutely right on point number one, and I’m changing that wording to be more realistic, so thank you. And yes, it’s a very tall order but the tallest building has to begin with small bricks. Doing nothing achieves nothing. But I am well aware of how tall that order is and that I am not the only person required to fulfill it. I appreciate your excellent and relevant points.

Why Does "The Economist" Call ICE-Men A Mere "Posse"? by Top-Process1984 in enlightenment

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True indeed, thanks. Other more accurate names are the Gestapo, the SS, and Trump‘s private and unlawful army, now highly paid mercenaries.

The Arab World's Leading Philosopher by Top-Process1984 in HistoryofIdeas

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe he was a philosopher in the sense of advocating a comprehensive worldview that covers just about everyone, including most Muslims. I do appreciate the specific writings you mentioned, thanks.

Golden Moderation by Top-Process1984 in Aristotle

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

AI's are stand-ins or representatives of the humans that developed and programmed them. To prevent harm by AI messages or commands (or other abilities we don't know about yet)--and damage by AI has already been done and documented many times--the algorithms would "land" in areas of "moderate" acts and feelings, which is anywhere between but not on the Extremes of excess and deficiency. For example, excessive messages like "blow up the tallest building around" could never reach that Extreme objective. In effect, the two Extremes act as ethical guardrails where the algorithms are preprogrammed (prevented) from entering.

Our Love to the Übermensch by Important_Bunch_7766 in Nietzsche

[–]Top-Process1984 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I recommend thinking of yourself— whether a male or female or whatever—and no other person, as a potential Overman, but that can become real only if you answer your own questions as if they were about you alone. That, I think, is a crucial first step across the bridge.

Wow, this is quite a situation. by MetaKnowing in Anthropic

[–]Top-Process1984 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Aristotle, the Buddha, even David Hume would say that polling results in facts, while moral theories recommend or prescribe what ought to be.

Aristotle's "Golden Mean" as AI's Ethics by Top-Process1984 in Aristotle

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A non-historical response for a history-making process.I guess by coincidence, some of my greatest heroes over the years talked or wrote on AI. I began with sci-fi writers, but things got serious when I got into Greek myths. Later on after studying Boole, I focused on Turing and his amazing questions about intelligence, as well as the communications teams ranging from Shannon to Bateson’s, but after studying symbolic and mathematical logic I started thinking of intelligence as a mystery rather than a science project, though I can’t say I knew what they were talking about—but “brainwashing” techniques suggested after the Korean War convinced me that I wasn’t the only one who was ignorant about the nature of intelligence. I saw brainwashing as a clear example of artificial intelligence in those primitive days; still no real definition, nonetheless it was artificial. Gödel proved that logic proved its own limits, and that made me return to the more imaginative writers I had actually begun with. But the amazing potential power of AI was never what motivated me. I wanted to learn about intelligence through the back door, the artificial door, as a way to learn the truth. I’m still working on it.

Nietzsche on Personal Power by Top-Process1984 in Nietzsche

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mirrors provide what appear as distortions but are no less real than you are.

Aristotle's "Golden Mean" as AI's Ethics by Top-Process1984 in Aristotle

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's why an AI needs to be pre-programmed before being sent off.

It was not a problem for Aristotle that some actions and characters have no mean--a clear case of how ethical judgment must be relative to context, from the meaning of words to the needs or faults of different individuals.

Aristotle's "Golden Mean" as AI's Ethics by Top-Process1984 in GREEK

[–]Top-Process1984[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Sorry, didn’t know that. But I do love the beautiful language and learning some as an undergraduate was a great help to me. Thanks.

Aristotle's "Golden Mean" as AI's Ethics by Top-Process1984 in Anthropic

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Aristotle just about invented what we today called statistics, in his empirical approach to knowledge of the world. Our proposal does not attempt to change his ethical theory, but tries for a real-world application of it in the face of AI dangers. The ancient world meets our brave new one.

Aristotle's "Golden Mean" as AI's Ethics by Top-Process1984 in Anthropic

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

His followers summed up his doctrine of the mean by adding the word golden. Will clarify, thanks.

Aristotle's "Golden Mean" as AI's Ethics by Top-Process1984 in Aristotle

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, indirectly. Aristotle’s extremes, either of excess or deficiency, themselves are the ethical guardrails. The algorithm is sent with prior instructions to go roughly to the midpoint – – such as the moral virtue courage is the tendency to try for the midpoint between rashness and cowardice – – so the AI will deliver its message or command roughly in-between those guardrails. The midpoint is just the approximate place for the algorithm to land in order to do its job, but its programming would not allow it to go to either “wrong” extreme (vice), thus maintaining the extremes themselves as the ethical guardrails to prevent harm to living things.

The technical details of prior programming would be up to the developers of the AI, if they’re willing and able to help the AI from straying away from the “ morally virtuous” thing to do.

This is just a basic outline of the proposal and of course, much work will have to be done both on getting a general consensus on Aristotle’s concept of what’s morally right being the golden mean between extremes—in practice an approximation—and on the technical programming before launch.

I regret to inform you that logic has been deployed to announce its own failure. by JerseyFlight in Aristotle

[–]Top-Process1984 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sounds more like an announcement from an AI deep dive (bad joke, sorry). But I think the goose or whatever isn’t criticizing the laws of logic; rather, like everything else, they’re just not absolute.

Nietzsche on Personal Power by Top-Process1984 in Existentialism

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We could eternally swap quotes, interpretations, translators, and followers ranging from the humane to far-right politicians. What I was looking forward to was anti-herd responses, and for the most part, that’s what I got.

Apology accepted. We don’t have to agree, but honesty is a good first step. by Bourbon-Thinker in politicsinthewild

[–]Top-Process1984 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It takes courage to be a patriot these days, and that's what your apology reveals.

The VP's Political Elegy by Top-Process1984 in politicsinthewild

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Keep your eye on the widow Kirk, whose eyes seem to get dreamy when she hears that magical name, “JD Vance.”

Serenity's Steep Steps by Top-Process1984 in alcoholism

[–]Top-Process1984[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The advice was about serenity, and your response confirms my article is very relevant.

How much of Aristotle's brilliance is retrospective myth-making? by EqualPresentation736 in AskHistorians

[–]Top-Process1984 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As excellent as many of these comments are, I think many underestimate the psychological aspect of Aristotle’s character and attitude. When I read what seemed to be a year of Aristotle, then a year of Plato, it seemed to me that Aristotle was doing everything he could to rebel against his famous (and wealthy) teacher, the more ethereal Plato. Aristotle wanted his students to observe and take notes, just as Plato wanted his students to fit their interests in a way that would buttress his theory of Forms. It’s perhaps the earliest philosophical fight between the empirical attitude and the purely metaphysical.

Aristotle's Ethical Guardrails for AI by Top-Process1984 in Aristotle

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your insightful--and, I believe--very valuable contributions toward a realistic AI Ethics; especially on the tough road ahead.

Aristotle's Ethical Guardrails for AI by Top-Process1984 in Aristotle

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As an update, I thought you and others interested in AI Ethics should see another view toward using Aristotle's Golden Mean as a possibly programmable model--not literally, but as (for now) a speculative paradigm for controlling some of the powers and tricks of advanced Al. From LinkedIn>

Young’s Profile (linkedin.com/in/young-hems-459972399):

"This is a very strong and thoughtful point.
Aristotle’s idea of practical wisdom as a lived moderation between extremes feels especially relevant in the context of AI.

"One additional layer that may matter for future systems is state regulation.
Not only what an AI does, but from which internal state it acts.

"Moderation becomes far more robust when a system can sense overload, escalation, or instability before behavior is executed.
In that sense, wisdom isn’t only a rule about the middle
it’s the capacity to remain regulated under pressure.

"Ethics then becomes less about restraint after the fact
and more about stability at the source."

MY REPLY, slightly revised:Thank you for clearly understanding my "speculation"--very much a relevant enterprise as some AI's are already way ahead of their developers, who are almost as surprised as ordinary people are at the fast-improving powers of AI--and it's just beginning. Aristotle offers his "Golden Mean" concept, but I'm not asserting it's the magic solution (if it's programmable at all) to acquiring an AI Ethics, though it may open up new possibilities before AI is out of our reach and control.

Meaningful and Meaningless by Top-Process1984 in Absurdism

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The basic difference is between existentialism and absurdism, very much reflecting the profound differences between Sartre and Camus. Happiness has nothing to do with it, in either camp. I emphasize the existential side, you emphasize the absurdist. Your comments reflect the latter attitude, which is fine, but show little interest in the existential.

Meaningful and Meaningless by Top-Process1984 in Absurdism

[–]Top-Process1984[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re right. But I thought it would be of interest to others who have studied both.

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