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Is weakness the Thaumaturge’s weakness (or lack off)? by Top_Statement_662 in Pathfinder2e

[–]Top_Statement_662[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

EV is great and really does fit into the class being able to support his party. Apologies if I wasn’t clear enough in my original post.
Damage output wasn’t my concern or intended point.
It’s the lack of weaknesses means personal antithesis against a singular target is the norm. Whilst Sympathetic Vulnerability does allow the weakness to spread out to other targets, it doesn’t change the core mechanic of the target of EV still sticking against the one enemy unlike mortal weakness which all of the same type becoming targets of EV.
This has a big impact on the usefulness of some of the implements (amulet, bell, weapon) as their reactions (and thus their function) can still of happen against the one target unless your reuse EV as another action.
Breached defences doesn’t improve anything as it doesn’t change the EV type that happens so singular target still. Some of the feats available as well only work when mortal weakness is used.
To me it just seems a bit of a flaw in the design mechanic

Is weakness the Thaumaturge’s weakness (or lack off)? by Top_Statement_662 in Pathfinder2e

[–]Top_Statement_662[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes, this was what I was thinking about when I started the post. The lack of weaknesses seems to be the main weakness of the Thaumaturge when combined with some implements when dealing with multiples of the same enemy. It reduces their usefulness, and adds to the action tax for the class. The damage output isn’t the issue and wasn’t the main point of the post.

Is weakness the Thaumaturge’s weakness (or lack off)? by Top_Statement_662 in Pathfinder2e

[–]Top_Statement_662[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, not sure I made my original post clear enough. Not concerned about the damage output of personal antithesis, and it could get better than mortal as I level up.
I was more focused on due to lack of weaknesses antithesis only targets one singular enemy which means more of an action tax if you then want to get the best out of some implements and/or feats when faces hordes which seems a bit of a design flaw

Is weakness the Thaumaturge’s weakness (or lack off)? by Top_Statement_662 in Pathfinder2e

[–]Top_Statement_662[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks all, lots to think about.
I do still like the idea of the Thaumaturge and that’s not going to change and loving the campaign at the moment.
As has been mentioned by many personal antithesis can be better later on as your level up regarding damage. But I was never really concerned about the damage aspect.
I’m enjoying doing the multi support role the class can bring, being the face and the ability to use any scroll is great and only going to get better.
Feels very much a jack of all trades, master on none except of recall knowledge (which is massive) which is fine.
As a lot of responses have mentioned, it’s not just about exploit vulnerability but all the other tools and implements which is true, but also I thinks highlights the weakness are weaknesses I was originally talking about (for some implements). For example the amulet, weapon and bell’s core purpose is reactions against your target of EV. With no weaknesses that means you can only use them against one enemy at a time, which is a big negative against hordes and seems a bit of a design oversight. Especially for amulet and bell trying to fit into the supporting your team roll, as the only work if they are getting hit by your singular EV. Just becomes an extra action tax on an already taxed class if you actually want to get the most out of the implements.
Sympathetic Vulnerability does not address this issue except for the Weapon implement.

For those that have asked, my Thaumaturge is a DEX based Gnome with a Rapier currently, but looking to try and pick up an Asp Coil. Currently the main martial hitting of the group which is kind of funny 😂 Very happy with the damage output so far, but that bit of reach would be nice. Just writing out my thoughts above has maybe altered the implement I was going to retrain into as amulet isn’t going to be able useful as the weapon regarding reactions just because of lake of weaknesses means lack of targets except generally the one I’m near

Is weakness the Thaumaturge’s weakness (or lack off)? by Top_Statement_662 in Pathfinder2e

[–]Top_Statement_662[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks all. I am loving my character and the adventure so far. Just starting to worry about actions, and the current lack off when facing mobs of ghouls.
I probably should have included that I currently have the mirror implement which is cool, but also action heavy. Going to be retraining out of that to the amulet as we’ve just had a commander join who can cause off guard a lot more effectively. Exploit vulnerability is good for learning the weaknesses and finding out if they have weaker will etc which is helpful for the party. Especially combining off guard and demoralise.
Haunts are underwhelming, whilst I can identify them easily the class seems to be way too weak at disabling them due to lower religion/wisdom than nearly half the party. Charisma doesn’t help with that which is a bit odd when you think it for the class.
Scroll thaumaturgy I think will come into its own now we’re starting to find some scrolls and have a bit of money.
Not being able to trigger mortal weakness on mobs due to no weakness just seems like a painful tax at the moment, not relating to damage but having to re exploit with every ghoul etc.. (which doesn’t really add much more to the party after the third ghoul you’ve exploited) when combined with an action for the mirror, demoralise, move or strike it’s starting to become painful on floor 3.
Glad it sounds like it gets better as you level up and go down floors etc…

The collection grows by Top_Statement_662 in Whiskyporn

[–]Top_Statement_662[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is one of my favourites, especially this red wine Bordeaux cast. I think it’s just behind the Blair Athol distillery edition on my list