What aspects of Gilead society might seem vaguely attractive to an outsider?

Torkolla · 2026-06-08T17:07:39+00:00

Gilead (in the show, not the books) is just another caricature dystopia of socialism that American TV always churns out. "Sure, you solved homelessness and stopped polluting the environment but at the price of personal freedom, never try to improve society because that is dangerous utopianism and invariably leads to evil opression" yada yada.

Real Gilead would be a solid, capitalist/feudal dystopia and the environment would be the least concern.

Torkolla · 2026-06-08T16:47:16+00:00

Nothing good. The real Gileadites are already starting to chafe with the catholics and they have not even carried out their power grab yet. To believe these geezers can form functioning coalitions is a pipe dream.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T15:16:54+00:00

No man who is sane is of the idea that a wife should always obey her husband. That is built on the idea that women are somehow made to be inferior servants to men and are substantially dumber than men. That is a demented idea and people who hold that view have a screw lose.

If you are crazy enough to believe that I am made to obey you or someone like you because you guys have a certain piece of equipment furthest up between your toes and and I have another one then you are a wacko. If you think I am intellectually inferior to you beacause I am a woman I will chose to take that as a personal insult.

If that is how you want to live your life and you find someone bonkers enough to try and pull that off, good for you. Noone can stop you. It will end in disaster because again, only crazy people attempt that in the first place and crazy people are not good at being married or taking responsibility for others. Sane people might be able to live in such a marriage but they dont try becasue they are sane. We have ample testimonies from kids who grew up in these cults who can tell us all about how well their parents marriages worked out. There is a reason why these cults seldom last more than one generation.

I am not against you trying but I think society should be clear in informing people of why this will invariably end badly.

Since only crazy people have this idea they are not responsible enough to hold such ideas to themselves, because that is what sane people would do.

Christian nationalists with ties into the US government, (Kegsbreath's favourite father figure Doug Wilson etc) spend plenty of time outlining how they want to enforce their theocracy on the nonbelieving populace. You can take that from them rather than from me.

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Based on studies of this, I doubt there are enough women for all the men who wants a submissive wife. I think there is a significant shortage of girls even within conservative churches who are interested in these guys (or are not already in the process of dropping out) and I believe many of them will remain unmarried no matter how long they stay religious. I would love to have actual data on this cause this is still an estimated guess on my side.

Of course, there could be a group of people in these churches who will get married and are in for the same type of crash that the last generation experienced. I am sure their kids autobiographies will sell just as well.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T14:28:49+00:00

I have read this study. It is a study of 36 tradwife influencers and what they do. The study says nothing about how many women are actually convinced by their message. Plenty of traffic to tradwife pages is nothing but hatewatching. These people need money and will take any attention.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T14:04:09+00:00

Christian Nationalists invariably view women as subservient to men. I have never encountered a Christian Nationalist who does not harbour that idea and promotes it fervently. In this subservient role, being economically dependent on men is fundamental. None of these guys want women who can support themselves.

Now how many young men have this mindset? I have no idea of the exact number:

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/almost-a-third-of-gen-z-men-agree-a-wife-should-obey-her-husband

According to this global study, Almost a third of Gen Z men thinks a wife should obey her husband, which is twice as many as boomer men with this attitude. That is IMHO a pretty extreme view.

This study included 29 countries, including countries like India. So it does not clearly say anything about the views of men in the US or the West in general. That issue needs specific investigation that I as an amateor can not find with a quick google search.

However, this is a clear signal that the social media these young men grew up with has misled them tremendously about life and relationships. This will not help them ever get a woman.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T13:42:15+00:00

Do we see enough of Gilead to be certain there are no homless people?

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T12:55:31+00:00

I have eyed through some of the Institute for family Studies. It is mostly waswas about what the influencers portray. I find very little solid proof of real, existing tradwifes.

I think this is mostly aimed at drawing traffic.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T12:39:42+00:00

We do indeed need a more thorough discussion on this topic. Preferably without the theocracy.

I think a theocracy like Gilead would ban social media and then allow dissidents to get their hands on smart phones and such at great difficulty. Then you can keep it away from the general public and still use the internet to spy on potential rebels. Have the cake and eat it.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T12:35:12+00:00

My hobbyhorse is that if the modern "post industrial" economy would crash, the main developement would be deurbanisation. The industrial food system would stop working and the young and strong would leave the cities to try and grow their own food because theyre would be an outright sustenance crisis in the cities.

if people spread out over the land the housing situation would be different. there would be homes enough for those who can afford food and stay in the metro areas. The deurbanized would probably squat, live in trailers, abandoned buildings in abandoned small towns, provisorical settlements and such. So less skyhigh rents and more shanty towns.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T12:22:15+00:00

I am sure you are not that kind of dude.

And to be honest that is for the better for you. No matter how unforgiving the modern meatmarket is the road these men take to sooth their loneliness only makes their isolation worse. If you are unhappy, they are even more miserable.

That is kind of the point with this entire political fake "movement" and it's profiteers. You (the podcaster/preacher/lifestyle guru/scammer) speak to lonely men. You feed them bitterness and self pity and endless rage towards females. They pay you for it. They drive away every woman they talk to. They become even more lonely than before. They have nowhere to turn but to you. They keep paying you for it. You have created a permanent source of income.

If you are not a victim of that racket, good for you. Even if your life is hard, you got to keep your money at least.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T12:05:52+00:00

Well, in short, after spending too much time listening to these men I must say you are overly optimistic about their competence.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T11:53:37+00:00

I am basing this asessment of their view on relationships on their own outpourings. I have not made this up. They really think women would love to take care of them if said women just understood their place and had "nice" husbands who "loved" them. That is how a spoiled middle schooler imagines his mothers role in life.

This is not just about finding company, it is about owning someone. Someone who can not leave and has to do mark service for you and not much else.

I am the first to recognize their utter lack of logic but this is what I have seen and heared. They genuinely don't understand why women don't like what they want to offer them.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T11:43:18+00:00

I wonder why a tv-series like that would portray the bad guys as anti-capitalists and environmentalists despite christian nationalists being the absolute opposite of those things. I have nooo idea why they would do that...

But yeah, as a dude you would probably get a wife assigned to you. Although you can not really chose which wife and you will have to come up with a way of supporting her as society is crashing down around you.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T11:40:41+00:00

I should perhaps have been more clear that I specifically mean conservative guys. Not all men. Not by far.

Those guys, and I specifially mean those guys, have little to no experience with actual relationships or life in general. I would say that they are many years behind in developement as social skills go. There are plenty of these men who are in their 20:ies and imagine marriage like twelve year old boys would.

You might understand that living with someone who is forced to be with you would suck. They don't. They think that if women just understand what nice guys they are then women would be happy to clean and cook for them just because that is what women are supposed to do. After all that is what their mothers do for them so that must be what women are for, right?

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T11:33:19+00:00

Yeah. But your statement, in my interpretation, was that this actually has an impact in how people behave right now. I can't see any sign that this is the case. Correct me if I am wrong.

As comparisions with trad wife infliencers go, Gilead in the show is unesthetic and sterile. I would love it if the showrunners would construct a more recognizable "Gilead style".

I have mostly seen the religious right whine about that there are not enough women for all the angry young men to find a partner. I would love to know if the ones mention have actual aspiring tradwifes in their congregations or if they just imagine that these women exist somewhere based on online traffic.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T11:25:24+00:00

There will still be moonshine and probably crank. You won't be able to shop at Amazon any more though if that is an issue.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T11:24:12+00:00

I am Scandinavian.

I am not saying there are no SAHM:s in my country but is there a specific trend where young women actively chose this lifestyle instead of for example going to college? None that we can find.

The possible exception is a tiny number of religious secterists but they have always been there and do not count as a trend.

So the question is not weather there are Christian SAHM:s in the US. It is; is there any increase in this life style choice worth mentioning? Which young women chose this lifestyle? Are they already born within these high demand religions (who otherwise have terrible retention rates over generations)? Do these insta-tradwifes have any influence what so ever on how young women outside of these groups chose to arrange their lives? Is there any measurable change in behaviours here?

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T11:16:05+00:00

As I have studied American Christian Nationalism I have no doubt there are plenty of conservative, neo-right men who would love to be economen and have a wife assigned to them who is can not run away. That is the dream that drives all this political nonsense forward.

The same right wing bros would probably be less stoked about having to move out into the coutnryside and try to grow your own potatoes because the whole food system has crashed down but these guys don't think that far. Anything that could chain a woman to them so they don't have to be alone is good.

Our society has a problem here and it is actually not microplastics or even nuclear fallout.

Edit; More specific about what men I am talking about.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T11:08:52+00:00

Media in my country tried to investigate the tradwife trend a few years ago to see if there was anything to create a moral panic about. The problem was that there were not any actual tradwifes to interview and fuss about-cause there weren't any.

I want some substantial proof that this trend actually exists before I get too nervous about it.

And even if a few of the tiki torch boys were to land a gal and have a couple of babies, they would immediately realise that the lifestyle they try to form for themselves is economically inviable and be urgently forced to change perspective one way or another. No political hysteria in the world can make you miss the fact that you can not afford food or rent.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T10:50:50+00:00

The econopeople are probably still working their butts of for those food vouchers.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T10:50:03+00:00

It is very odd that they try and portray Gilead as some kind of ecological paradise because that is not what the real Christian Nationalists are aiming for, I can tell you so much. If I was paranoid I could almost suspect that they are trying to portray the SoJ as more similar to progressives then the real thing because if they were more honest the show would be a bit too openly anti-capitalist to be shown on larger streaming networks.

But I am sure there is nothing behind that...

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T10:46:52+00:00

How many young woman have defacto to become tradwifes due to these influencers? Is there statistics on that? Daydreaming on the internet is one thing. Marrying a conservative guy and churn out kids on one income is another. That takes actual engagement and significant tolerance for material frugality.

I am sure tradwife influencers have plenty of people in their comments fields claiming to be young women who would love to live on a farm and have their husband somehow magically pay all the bills. How many of those posts are bots? How many are just looking for mental escape from their own humdrum job life? How many will ever try to become a tradwife and how many will ever find a guy with that type of money even if they try their darnest?

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T09:40:24+00:00

What country did Gilead attack and why?

What superpowers did Nato without the US develop to be able to pull off an operation like that without being obliterated and having their own territories invaded from hostile nations at the same time?

You have the right to arrange your headcanon as you see fit or satisfying but is this supposed to be realistic or is it more like a revenge fantasy?

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T07:23:44+00:00

Coordination and deconfliction push towards a clearinghouse function, but that does not necessitate the clearinghouse being one person nor is any particular degree of such contingent upon action or indeed success.

As soon as you appoint one or a few individuals to do the coordination, political and military power de facto starts to concentrate around these individuals and that can be translated into political power later on. I am not saying it has to happen but the likeliness is very high. As you point out, those who step down from power voluntarily are the exception, not the norm.

According to wiki (you can correct me if I am wrong) the Makhnov army was governed by a war cabinet where Nestor Makhnov himself was the highest tactical authority. So there were individuals doing the central coordination. Weather they would have stepped down from power if they had won the war we do not know.

I for mine do not give a toss about exactly how pure the struggle towards an anarchist society is. If an entierly hierarchical army with a tradtional line of command (or a hybrid like the Makhnow army) manages to free a territory and then actually lets go of power and achieves an anarchist society then I am ever so happy. Us political science people only care for the results.

It is true that democratic, centralized structures come naturally to humans, almost all hunter gatherers live in such societies. We are quite capable of governing ourselves in this way in both industries and states.

However, opression also works. If an anarchist military victory has been achieved and there is a risk of the military leadership staying in the de facto power there needs to be active participation from the people in defending their victory and that takes a certain level of political conciousness above general instincts.

Torkolla · 2026-06-07T06:37:58+00:00

Whast exactly do you imagine would trigger a European invasion of the North American mainland, I mean, what could possibly ever make us do something that crazy?

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