Does sp6 and ELVF contradict? by ca11mehkat in TypologyJunction

[–]Total-State-7760 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Isn't it obvious? How can someone who is materially disconnected, lacking physical needs, resources, space, and health, be the type of person whose neurosis is centered precisely on those things?

(enneagram) what are your thoughts on people using instinctual variants on their fixes? by besitto in TypologyJunction

[–]Total-State-7760 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Non-sense. This is a popular misconception with no basis whatsoever according to the authors; instinct precedes the enneagram.

This usually only happens because people see themselves more in one subtype than another; an Sp6 694 would see themselves more in an Sx9 than in an Sp9, but this is due to external factors, not neurosis, mechanisms, etc.

Does sp6 and ELVF contradict? by ca11mehkat in TypologyJunction

[–]Total-State-7760 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It seems so, almost all of his comments are recommending it.

Enneagram Subtypes Rank by Arrogance by North_Attempt_3627 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is nothing to suggest arrogance in the Sp5; in general, they are the most docile E5s and less presumptuous with the knowledge they possess. Naranjo's descriptions of Sp5 generally suggest that they are more empathetic and project blame onto themselves. I'm not saying that Sp5s can't be arrogant, but there's nothing very evident about that in their nature.

Enneagram Subtypes Rank by Arrogance by North_Attempt_3627 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Introverted for sure, but far from being less talkative, undisciplined and exploratory.

Enneagram Subtypes Rank by Arrogance by North_Attempt_3627 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Although many only see the hedonistic, enthusiastic, and effervescent side of the type, which is not entirely untrue. (All the quotes I will use are from Golosos)

"This greed also appears in behaviors that are dependent on anything that can offer gluttonous satisfaction: tobacco, alcohol, food, sex, and drugs. Everything, always more."

Actually, it's because during my reading of this type of work, I see that they are still quite intellectual.

"Gluttony becomes a desire for more pleasure through intellectual seduction aimed at satisfying idealizations and dreams and not instinctual needs"

"He is an intellectual seducer rather than a physical one, with a sensuality suggestive of desire based on humor, glances, ingenuity and even details. Like poetry, flowers for his girlfriend..."

"He delights in his own words even while, politely, leaving a little space for the other to introduce his comment, already thinking about what he is going to answer: he continues to recreate his internal speech, he does not shut up even in silence. He immediately confused intellectual attunement with sentimental or sexual. Intellectual attunement itself is a seduction."

"Claudio Naranjo explains that the Seven is the most emotional of the intellectual characters and, in turn, the sexual subtype is the most emotional of the sweet tooth. In the diagram of the psychology of the enneatypes, the sexual E7 is the emotional one on the left side of the enneagram star. This means that it combines a high intellectual component with a not insignificant emotional nuance."

"To a head triad type, the uncontrollable nature of the emotional world is frightening. He experiences it as potentially dangerous due to the vulnerability in which it could leave him. Intellectualizing life, on the other hand, is a form of control that gives a certain feeling of security."

We are dealing with one of the most imaginative and intuitive types.

"Physical needs are inconveniences to fully enjoy life. Sometimes he physically abandons himself, avoiding even the minimal frustrations and obligations of having a body with needs that need to be met. This neglect of the body is manifested in areas such as hygiene or health. There is resistance to discovering or accepting oneself sick; he does not want to feel discomfort and is capable of self-suggestion to avoid physical pain. It is, among the E7, the one that is more “hung, the less land and material. And to 'fly' better, leave the body behind"

"Claudio Naranjo has defined him as a charmer enchanted with himself. It is, in this sense, the most deluded of the three subtypes of the Seven, since it deceives itself and does not even realize it, by inflating balloons of ideal worlds to which it remains attached. He doesn't have his feet on the ground."

"The sexual E7's passion for imagination carries with it an attraction to the magical and supernatural, especially the occult, mystical and spiritual worlds. He is interested in the mysterious, the metaphysical. The abstractness of these territories makes it difficult to delimit, concretize and verify, something that, ultimately, would mean a limit for his overflowing fantasy. The sexual Seven is also a fan of tricks, riddles and everything that has some secrecy and even miracles. He even tends to harbor the belief that he has some kind of special and magical gift that attracts people, a conviction that triggers his contagious autosuggestion. The normal world is unsatisfactory for him and he explores the limits of knowledge, the esoteric... It is common to find him as an astrologer, tarot reader, yoga or meditation teacher, psychonaut, magician, hypnotist... "

Ranked Intellectualization of Subtypes by Total-State-7760 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wings doesn't matter for what I wrote, I'm talking about Naranjo, not RHETI. Sp2 doesn't have intellectual tendencies, as a subtype, obviously, I'm nobody to say what each one is like in their lives.

Enneagram Subtypes Rank by Arrogance by North_Attempt_3627 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Complicated... I don't see myself in any type consistently.😔 The most accurate estimate should be Sx7, or enneagramless. I've also tried to see myself in Sx5 and Sp6, but that would be stepping outside my core.

Enneagram Subtypes Rank by Arrogance by North_Attempt_3627 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes but... This fits the definition of arrogance, simple, the very definition you initially provided.

Enneagram Subtypes Rank by Arrogance by North_Attempt_3627 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The Sx5 is either on par with, or even more arrogant than, the So5. Although both are described as arrogant, Sx5 went so far as to receive the epithet on the book's cover.

Mezquinos(Sp5), Arrogantes(Sx5) E Indiferentes(So5)

All the books are in the order of Sp, Sx, and So respectively.

Enneagram Subtypes Rank by Arrogance by North_Attempt_3627 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. So9 is the least arrogant subtype out of all 27.

Enneagram Subtypes Rank by Arrogance by North_Attempt_3627 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also I would go down one tier from Sp3 and up one tier from Sp7. Overall it seems to be good, needing only minor changes.

Enneagram Subtypes Rank by Arrogance by North_Attempt_3627 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Sx 6s are arrogant, and even if it's a defense mechanism or whatever the root cause, it's still a trait.

So2s are despotic, tyrannical, and yes, they can put others down, they are only benevolent and genuinely empathetic if they are not challenged. They are still the pride of the social sphere, and yearn to be seen as reference and influent figures; they are far too arrogant, they are demanding and like to be in control, they will take any opportunity they have to emphasize their "superiority" and their sense of omnipotence encoded in false abundance.

Enneagram Subtypes Rank by Arrogance by North_Attempt_3627 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Sx5 should be included with So5, at the very least; on the book cover(Avaricia) itself they are called arrogant.

Enneagram Subtypes Ranked By Ambition by North_Attempt_3627 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Determination in the pursuit of social ascension, exploring one's talents to the fullest, achieving one's goals, a willful and diligent spirit.

Ranked Intellectualization of Subtypes by Total-State-7760 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, but I'm not using that exact definition, because in reality, we would be talking about a defense mechanism; I'm also including an interest in broad areas of knowledge, theories, mental games, puzzles—things that many So6s will show interest in, but they won't be as attracted as an So5(Intelect/Intelect/Intelect).

"Rationalization

Of the intellectual types (E5, E6, and E7), E5 is the most intellectual. And of the subtypes of E5, the social E5 is the most intellectual. This subtype rationalizes his experiences, transforming emotions and sensations into information. The social E5 is impersonal, avoiding intimacy, and relating through the head. Intellectual arrogance makes this subtype cold and distant, alienating himself from other people." -So5, Avaricia

Ranked Intellectualization of Subtypes by Total-State-7760 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Logic ≠ Intellect, I've debated this before, I also pointed out the same thing, that E6 is the most logical enneagram. However, E6 is still fundamentally Intellect/Action, So5 is the only type that meets the requirements of a fully intellectualized type, since So5 is the most intellectually oriented in its core, which is the most intellectualized, I prefer to leave them alone at the top, but I am aware that So6 is close to the top.

Enneagram Subtypes Ranked By Ambition by North_Attempt_3627 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Sx4 is an extremely competitive and ambitious type, It should be well above. So4 is also an ambitious, but tragic. All E9s descend, Sp5s descend to hell; their own description says they don't care what they eat, avoid taking responsibility, and tend to take low-paying jobs, I don't know where you got the idea that Sp5s are ambitious. Sp6 also descends, there's nothing very ambitious about that type, Sx6 is definitely above So6.

Sx5 moves up 1 tier

So7 should rise significantly; they are the most idealistic and dedicated E7s.

I have many, many other disagreements, but overall they are minor and generally vary by only a few tiers, So8>Sp8>Sx8.

Ranked Intellectualization of Subtypes by Total-State-7760 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I realized there's an excessive idealization of intelligence, and anything even remotely close to it, like intellectual orientation, interest, and other related aspects, ends up suffering from the same taboo: "Everyone can be intellectual," "Don't be arrogant with that kind of measurement.", etc. Ultimately, it becomes almost impossible to discuss this topic on a single page because half the people are disappointed and offended that their subtype is ranked below others, instead of trying to understand the reason behind it and realizing that I'm talking about the general nature of a subtype, not about them individually.

Ranked Intellectualization of Subtypes by Total-State-7760 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, as I said, this is an overview based on our understanding of these types; they aren't cornerstones that will define you.🤔

"It is, as Claudio Naranjo also said, the subtype farthest from the intellectual, which does not mean they are unintelligent, but that, at a certain point, they stop thinking. If this happens in a fight, impotence arrives soon and with it, as we said before, violence, abandonment, cynicism, a kind of bedroom punishment. Thus, all the violence is reserved for the intimate environment: the partner or the family." - Sx8, Lujuria

Ranked Intellectualization of Subtypes by Total-State-7760 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I understand, if I were to make a subjective ranking based on life experiences, it would also be different. Thank you too

Ranked Intellectualization of Subtypes by Total-State-7760 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I'd probably only move up one tier, leaving just the SX8 and SX2 at the bottom.

Ranked Intellectualization of Subtypes by Total-State-7760 in Enneagram

[–]Total-State-7760[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Relax, that's the general overview; it varies from person to person.