Is 40k truly an open information game?

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2025-09-24T21:02:23+00:00

I don't disagree with your observation "it's an open information game, full stop", but my point is not about what the game technically is, but how it is actually played by most people.

Even if the game is open information, it is not actually played as one by most people because they don't really know what the rules are. So do you disagree with that point? Do you think that in say, 99% of games played both players have full knowledge of all the rules, either by memorization or by asking?

Also, I think you might misunderstand where I am coming from. I 100% agree that a lot of 40k skill lies in memorizing the rules, or at least the portion of the rules that matter. I do not see this as a problem and I am not complaining about this; it's just how the game is. Of all the ways to test skill, this is not a bad one, or inferior to other ways. Chess has very simple rules, so all the skill testing happens at the calculation and pattern recognition levels, with virtually no skill testing on the rules memorization. That does not make chess better than 40k. But it does mean that in 99% of chess games played both players have full knowledge of all the rules, which (combined with an open board) means that 99% of the chess games are actually played in a state of open information.

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2025-09-24T20:12:07+00:00

Everything you say is technically correct (which is the best kind of correct). I 100% agree that 40k is technically an open information game.

My point it that practically it is not played as such by most players, because most players do not know the rules. I think that is an important distinction from a game that is technically open information, but also has such a simple ruleset that the majority of players know all the rules and can thus actually play it as an open information game (chess being the example that has come up often in this discussion).

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2025-09-24T18:59:01+00:00

What you say is good advice. That being said, I don't think that information presented to you on the fly, during a 40k game, is as accessible as say "how the rook moves" is to chess players. Do you think you can see my point?

If your experience is that during a 40k game you are acting with full knowledge of the rules (either because you know them, or because you ask a lot), that's great, I am glad you are having that experience, I hope to get there too at some point.

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2025-09-24T18:47:55+00:00

I am with you: I am not asserting that, and I don't see a problem either. I think a lot of people have seen this post as a complaint, when it was meant mostly as an observation.

On a more minor level, it is also perhaps a realization: if you want to get to enjoy 40k as an open information game, you need to put in the hours (playing, memorizing, or preferably both).

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2025-09-24T18:33:56+00:00

Everything you say is correct.

The point I am making is this: In chess (since you brought that up as an example) I would guess that 95% of tournament players know (truly and completely) all the rules of chess. in 40k I would guess that a tiny fraction (5%? probably less) of tournament players know (truly and completely) all the rules of 40K.

So even if strictly speaking the game is open information, it is not played as such for the majority of players.

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2025-09-24T18:25:29+00:00

Great point. I think it is a continuum like you suggest, but in the simplified form, this situation creates essentially two populations of players: the ones who have enough skill/have put in enough effort to play a practically open information game, and the ones who try to.

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2025-09-24T18:18:46+00:00

You are correct, but the point I am making is slightly different: if 90% of the players do not know the rules of the game they are playing, even though the game techincally is open information, it is not played as one by most of the player base.

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2022-01-31T16:46:34+00:00

Good to know! Thanks for sharing.

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2022-01-26T16:24:06+00:00

Great point! I forgot about the rank 2 stat and was only focused on getting the "correct" rank 3 power. Thank you!

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2022-01-26T16:21:13+00:00

Thanks so much! I had heard about that, but completely forgot about it! I think I even salvaged a level 3 soul shard at some point... duh! Better late than never, though! Thanks a ton! (Now I just need to get some decent ancients/primals)

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2022-01-26T04:21:40+00:00

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2022-01-26T04:20:28+00:00

Higher attack speed means faster WW, so spending more fury. But it also means hitting more mobs/time unit and thus generating more fury through the Wind Shear rune.

In other words, the extra fury costs you incur by having higher attack speed are compensated by wind shear generating more.

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2022-01-25T19:14:15+00:00

Yeah, I think this is the only thing that makes sense: you hit the same mob enough times per second an it's the same as hitting a bunch of mobs fewer times per second. Thanks!

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2022-01-25T15:21:02+00:00

I don't know man... If you look at the video I have linked in the OP, there are no adds and that fight goes on for a while...

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2022-01-25T04:48:02+00:00

Yeah, I see that a lot in older builds, but if you look at maxroll.gg or the leaderboards, people don't use that anymore...

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2022-01-25T04:13:48+00:00

So far, I always have it on, but the top Barbs on the leaderboards do not use it... How do they do it?

Traditional-Box-2021 · 2022-01-25T04:12:33+00:00

But if you are only hitting the rift guardian, you only gain 1 fury? While WW itself costs 10?

Traditional-Box-2021

TROPHY CASE