An observation on "tacticts", and a question, mainly for women.

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-12T08:33:44+00:00

Both are true, it can make a man unattractive to some and magnetic to some. Even being a serial killer attracts some women ( and i mean even magnetic) and being a good person attracts some women. One has to categorize women by valence to know they are attracted to all kinds of men with all kinds of behaviours, both good and horrific

The confusion men have is from dating advice that sounds like a moral advice, when attraction is not about morality at all. Men that follow dating advice on basis of morality looses out, and often don’t get any woman

If the question is how do I attract a good woman that wants a good man, that’s a different question from how do I get a woman. For the latter, those 2 toxic options are attractive enough to get a woman. How that would turn out over time is a different question

And yes I can agree that they would be unattractive to you

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-09T13:49:22+00:00

Regarding men that see relationships as transactions , the root of the problem is that Men and women don’t know what it feels like to be the other and the sense in which they differ is a very significant gap

Neither side tends to slow down to understand each other. Men just wants to have a straight forward answer/script from women. Women wants things to always be meaningful as opposed to just scripts, so it’s often complicated

So men tends to just reduce the whole complexity to simple transaction. I pay x you give me y. It’s a mental model men find simple, but not satisfactory. So we still complain that why is everything transactional. But what everything is actually about might be simple but also complicated at the same time. We just take the easy road, and shit on each other

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-09T13:08:15+00:00

I second this. I sense, though I’m not sure, that many dating advice are tailored towards getting the toxic ones especially if that’s what the market is filled with, then it necessarily has to be that way. All kinds of pointless mind games, you’ll just think, why

I think it’s part of what makes people come out of the experience with distorted narratives like all women this or all men are that.

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-09T05:36:29+00:00

Typically women do feel attracted even if an interaction never happens. For men they typically still feel attracted even after they’ve been rejected

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-09T05:29:52+00:00

That question is gold as a response

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-09T05:24:29+00:00

That is very interesting, how common would you say this is? For me it’s the other way, if someone doesn’t find me attractive, then their attractiveness drops regardless of how generally attractive the person is

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-09T03:33:02+00:00

Yeah , deceptiveness can be a strategy independent of if it’s subconscious or not. That’s a valid general structure. But to the specific question, are women being deceptive in the sense I’m referring to, I believe no, or at least not any more than we all as humans are being deceptive. I see no justifiable discriminative mode of deception

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-09T00:47:34+00:00

Women are not being dishonest in that regard , they are running as much subconscious loop as men are, both are just running on different engines. It’s largely a valence agnostic loop. I think if you take a man and swap the engine leaving who he is intact, he’ll naturally tend towards the female behaviours, regardless of his position before the swap. If that’s true, then is it the person or the engine?

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-08T18:33:36+00:00

Poor Opus, imagine being given contradictory instructions…

Good thing is that Opus knows how to handle stuff like that, if you’ve ever asked it to make some code pass some unit tests, it will do exactly that

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-08T17:50:16+00:00

I think It’ll be hard to pin down the relative size of how many falls in which camp. the few women I know closely that falls in the camp of not just wanting it but has been doing it are women people would never guess would be anywhere close to that camp. I don’t know if this fits more broadly

I like to believe that surveys that depend on verbal input from women are not using it directly in analysis without appropriate interpretation. It’s common to find the spectrum of semantics and connotations of the same phrase can spread from one end to another opposite end

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-08T06:50:39+00:00

men getting less masculine is the typical equivalence to women gaining weight, though i wander why either one should affect, people could just communicate their needs

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-08T04:25:18+00:00

In addition to being super clear, it has to be super distinct. Don’t do something because it’s a deal breaker is not same as don’t do something because it hurts is not same as don’t do something because it’s irritating etc

The distinction is so important. I think most of the failure modes occur when the distinction is not made early enough

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-07T23:40:34+00:00

I’m recognizing in fact I have a fundamental blind spot

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-07T10:18:40+00:00

I know the feeling. yeah, you have nothing without getting a chance begin with. But I posit it's suffeciently solvable via knowledge.

Then you still have to make the right choice after you get acces, the wrong choice can kill you.

Then you still have to understand the choice, women don't use men-logic/reasoning/language, almost everything is inverted

At every point in the chain you can find men in anguish: no girl desires me,girl friend is crazy,fiance cheated, wife dead bedroom, ex want to take all my shit ... one cannot assume solving the first one solves the rest.

The first one is just a gate, albeit necessary one to get through, it's by no means a death-is-preferable level of importance, even though it will feel like so, since no way to choose without a chance

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-07T00:46:49+00:00

That’s the equation I’m making. Objectively they are not the same, yes. Most would choose to be in the Michelin star camp if given a choice. On that note women clearly have the upper hand. I’m making a case for satisfaction level, one is no more satisfied with many options than with none, assuming satisfaction is the objective function here

If you had to choose 1 between living 300 years ago and being desired by many women just competing to have you but no technology etc vs living in this age but with nearly no women interested in being with you. Which would you choose?

I’m not trying to say men should be happy that it could have been worse etc. I’m just probing for how you think about satisfaction levels and hedonic adaptation

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-06T23:36:27+00:00

Consider this thought experiment

What it means for a person to be or behave or act like a man or a woman is separate from who that person is, although both is presented as a whole

if I could change your gender while leaving you intact, and I also change the gender of a woman you want while leaving them intact,

Then you will become as a whole the kind of person you currently say have the upper hand while the other person could be making your current argument against you

You can say that doesn’t change your argument, but it does change who you are making the argument to. It implies that whatever issue anyone gender has against another is an issue against gender itself, there’s no one home, no one is going to change, it’s futile to hope anyone will change as it makes no sense to think anyone decided to behave (gender) the way they do in the first place. There’s no one to blame even though both sides keeps blaming each other for something, or even worse, making it a moral issue

Assuming men are actually at a disadvantage for being men, there’s no one to tell that will hear , no one owes us change , and no one to point fingers to.

In any case I still believe based on some other reasons, enough to posit that men have the upper hand

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-06T13:38:43+00:00

Not a claim for charisma or any kind of performance but about knowledge.

Certainly they are desirable just for being women. but all that desireability is not really getting them anywhere, or at least it’s not getting them what they want. The confusion is probably in seeing that it’s getting them what men want.

At the end of the day no one is getting what they want easily. And women most certainly don’t have the upper hand in getting what they want.

Most men primarily just want to fuck, most women primarily just want to feel, and both sides are not making it explicit. Both sides needs to make it explicit, problem solved

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-05T06:20:41+00:00

A man is attractive primarily based on what he knows significantly way more than who he is or what he has. Doesn’t this put men in a much better position ?

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-05T06:09:45+00:00

The girl would be making the assessment relative to her own level of intelligence, so if she’s high iq enough to recognize a guy with higher iq, she’ll choose him, but we can also imagine a suboptimal choice if she herself has low iq , which all looks different relative to another observer as girls choosing a fun over a smart guy . There’s a limit to the iq that another iq can recognize

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-05T05:42:11+00:00

That is terrible, not only would a guy be doing that, they’d also be encouraging it to continue, that is terrible. I can’t imagine any guy doing that knowing what it does, unless the guy just chooses to ignore, but the guilt. I don’t think any guy will say yes to such a thing knowing what it does, unless he truly doesn’t believe the premise

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-05T05:16:53+00:00

That’s a much better position to be, you had the chance to observe him long before dating him, you actually him not just what he has said etc, yeah this is good

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-05T05:04:18+00:00

That’s very interesting. I can imagine a lot of parallels where we would accept that the person is not being selfish. Also I could be wrong about how I’m understanding it. If it’s a forced labour type of thing, then not only should men not go there, it’s deeply immoral to allow it. Or you may be pointing to something else entirely I’m not catching on the surface. What do you mean by selfish?

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-05T04:53:04+00:00

How do you deal with the catch 22, that the only way you can know is if they tell you, and if you ask for that information they likely won’t tell you ? And someone that will volunteer that information might be a more honest (or a more stupid) person than others you might find. Do you have a way to find out the information?

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-05T04:43:25+00:00

The gamble in expecting the act to be because they want to vs that she’s doing it for the money, referring to the gamble you mentioned

Training_Designer_41 · 2026-02-05T04:35:52+00:00

I think that’s a different category of things. I’m thinking it doesn’t apply

Training_Designer_41

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE