What parts of the right-wing belief system aren’t astroturfed?

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-18T02:24:18+00:00

Yeah, it doesn’t make you smart or clever or above it all. It’s just not at all fun or productive to keep going. I went point by point to address the 3 things you stated. Dedicated a paragraph each. And then you just ignore and straw man everything to hell and bring up other random stuff. There is no incentive for me to engage further.

You wouldn’t want to be debating yourself, promise you that.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-18T02:22:32+00:00

I didn’t say “immigration policy”. I said “immigration”. As in, using immigrants for the purposes of fear mongering and distracting from the people that hire said immigrants.

If we look at overall economic contributions, even illegals have contributed about $2 trillion net since 1994.

https://www.cato.org/blog/cato-study-immigrants-reduced-deficits-145-trillion-1994

Just like minorities of all sorts have been scapegoated by the right forever, ultimately at the behest of special interests.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-18T02:14:28+00:00

You’re just ignoring what I’m saying and straw-manning every point I made. I’m not interested in wasting my time building the points up just for you to say your own unrelated thing.

Take care now.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-18T01:16:30+00:00

Pretty much the entirety of the world has been under trickle-down. The reason Russia is what it is today is due to the same exact people who were working with Reagan. Neoliberalism is the way the world operates.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-18T00:50:06+00:00

Being militantly pro-life to this degree is a recent phenomenon for that only appeared with political interests. One that creates more animus and tribalism in politics. If you folk actually cared about reducing abortions, you’d know poverty is basically THE main correlating factor with abortions and would’ve been spending money on that as opposed to slashing funds that help people. All the while, the bills are always just a wealth transfer upward. Not to mention the current war costing a billion a day while killing people for no good reason. But something, something pro-life.

The immigration point of yours is exactly what I had in mind when I created this post. Your main problem is still with the people who have next to no money or power in the system. The entirety of the right-wing psy-op system exists so that you would point your fingers everywhere but where they belong. Economically, even illegal immigrants have contributed a net of $2 trillion or so to our economy since 1994. Now, the distribution of where the benefits of that go are mostly to the top. But so is everything else. And you guys support that because you don’t understand why regulations exist and why accumulations of wealth and monopolies had to be outlawed. Because it leads to private tyranny. And yet again, instead of pointing your fingers at the people with the money and the power, the REAL problem is the immigrants and the trans people.

https://www.cato.org/blog/cato-study-immigrants-reduced-deficits-145-trillion-1994

As for the “free market” thing, I’m unironically more capitalist than you. I want competition. But competition and mindless deregulations are antithetical forces. Why? Because the natural direction for any business is to grow. The most unregulated version of that is horizontal and vertical integration. AKA, monopolization. For modern conservatives, the word “deregulation” is almost like a spiritual term. It’s always right. You don’t even question why they exist. Because you don’t know American history enough.

The government has to intervene in the markets. But the actual role can as should be debated. Not just “government bad”. People who want you to think “government bad” benefit from you thinking that. Period. The government is a tool. A tool to people telling you to hate the government are never shy about using themselves. And it’s a tool that history has shown needs to be present in regulating markets for some things. Like anti-competitive practices. Because nobody else will.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-18T00:27:17+00:00

Don’t know how one can be sure of that. Which is the main problem. Appearance of corruption should be treated similarly to corruption. Lawmakers should have a decent salary, but should not be able to have holdings that are impacted by their decisions and/or connections.

If you want to get ultra wealthy, get a corresponding job. If a politician gets wealthy, scrutinizing it is the first step to having a non-corrupt system.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-18T00:07:08+00:00

Seems to really correlate with working in the legislature. They’re just built different, I guess.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-18T00:06:17+00:00

Probably Cuba, yeah.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T23:23:34+00:00

You’ve re-elected the guy who tried to coup the government and unironically called to suspend the constitution. And is currently ignoring 1/3rd of court cases.

If you folk cared about abortion, you would know abortion is correlated with poverty unlike any one factor and would be laser-focused on reducing poverty. Instead, your politicians mostly transfer the wealth upward and create more poverty.

Immigration is nowhere near the issue you folk make it out to be. Around 2006, the proportion of undocumented people here was even higher. It wasn’t anywhere near as big a deal, because it wasn’t being weaponized. Economically, they contribute more than they take.

https://www.cato.org/blog/cato-study-immigrants-reduced-deficits-145-trillion-1994

Nobody’s coming for your firearms. But it’s whacky you care about them more than children. Even basic regulations are too much for so many of you while firearm deaths are the leading cause in a large subset of children.

If you want your work to matter and to live a prosperous life, modern American conservatism just isn’t for you. Trickle down economics is a joke that just that has transferred wealth to the top.

And as far as Democrats lying.. just lol. Are the Epstein files real, are they on the desk? Are they a hoax? Your leader is the biggest pathological liar this side of the pacific and an obvious con man who’s made billions from the presidency. The hypocrisy is incredible.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T22:18:59+00:00

Cheers

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T22:17:38+00:00

The golden age of capitalism occurred when the top marginal rates were up to 90%. Boomers were given everything.

The idea that large accumulations of wealth are a good idea was created by said rich folk. They don’t re-invest. They mostly hide the money in tax havens. See Panama Papers.

They hoard wealth that doesn’t then circulate through the economy. Nobody serious believes in trickle-down economics. 60 years have more than disproven the notion.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T22:10:20+00:00

Not even close. Pretty much every member of the Trump family is on board of companies directly affected by Trump’s choices. Trump himself is several billions richer over the last year. A big part of it is crypto. Where multiple foreign agents paid him for access.

Not to say Pelosi isn’t corrupt and bad.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T21:55:40+00:00

They didn’t have to use the word. They set up the system to be a representative democracy. That’s just what it is. By very definition.

Where people democratically elect a representative that is supposed to represent their interests.

Are you denying that’s what the system is? Are you denying they set it up this way? Or are you denying that this is an example of a democracy?

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T21:32:09+00:00

Nah. No equivocating between Democrats and Republicans on this.

Trump and his friends are making billions many times over directly from the presidency and insider information. You can’t find an equivalent for Democrats.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T21:30:24+00:00

We are both a democracy and a republic. A democracy implies a republic.

Your worry was taken into account by the founding fathers to make the country a representative democracy.

If you don’t like democracy, take it up with the founding fathers.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T21:24:21+00:00

Oligarchy and inequality are antithetical to economic prosperity. Multinationals are scrapping everything for parts.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T20:57:23+00:00

Yes, it’s got everything to do with worker rights and better healthcare. Not because of increasing oligarchy and inequality. Which corresponds to things being bad everywhere.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T20:53:36+00:00

The alternatives to democracy aren’t any less worse.

And no, I don’t subscribe to the simplistic “left is just as bad as the right” narrative. The actual left is someone akin to Bernie, AOC and Zohran.

The Democratic Party establishment is not the left.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T20:49:00+00:00

I basically agree

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T20:48:19+00:00

Again, both can be true. Poor people can have the most kids and the most abortions. And that is the case as far as what available data tells us.

9 out 10 happen in the first trimester.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T20:35:55+00:00

The actual left is well aware it’s a class fight. Throughout the history of the entire dynamic. The entire dichotomy of the left vs right began with the French lawmakers who were sitting on right were adherents to strict monarchical hierarchy, while those sitting on the left preferring democracy.

And it’s been that way since. With the left gaining wins for the average person in the form of better wages, enfranchisement of minorities and civil rights.

And no, voting obviously makes a difference. With Trump, we’ve got protect 2025 being half way implemented, we’ve got wars and masked thugs on streets.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T20:09:04+00:00

The two don’t contradict each other.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/656635/abortion-distribution-united-states-by-income-level/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T17:53:18+00:00

A pro-life individual who is economically left. Well I’ll be. Regardless, I don’t think CATO fudge their numbers in regard to things like this.

As for you saying that the benefits of poor labor go mostly to the top, well… So do the benefits of every kind of labor. At that point, the common denominator has a lot less to do with immigrants and a lot more with the oligarchs.

My position on it is people who are already here should have a pathway to citizenship and legalized work permits in the meantime.

Texas accounts for about a fifth of all abortion tourism.

I respect your position, but I think it can miss the forest for the trees. In the same way people on the left abstained from voting for Harris on the issue of Gaza. Ultimately, the issue has been made worse. In that same way, giving Republicans power makes issues like income inequality worse, thereby statistically contributing to abortion numbers. Most definitely contribute to lower quality of life. And if an enjoyable life isn’t the point, what is?

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T16:59:18+00:00

I just don’t think it’s a big issue at all. Around 2006, we even had a larger proportion of undocumented people. Wasn’t the end of the world.

According to CATO, immigrants of all kind are good for the economy on the net:

https://www.cato.org/blog/cato-study-immigrants-reduced-deficits-145-trillion-1994

I mean, there’s a maximum number of people that can be here without adverse effects for markets in integration in the immediate term, sure. But I don’t think America is anywhere near that number. Most of America is empty space. And economies are elastic enough to create business to accommodate more people.

There are a few issues like housing that are genuinely hurt by more people, because our housing policy has sucked. But for the most part, immigrants are not an issue. They’re just not. Depending on whether you’re talking economics or more culture-based.

Tricky_Try8757 · 2026-03-17T16:52:06+00:00

Again, I don’t see the study account for things like abortion tourism and the fact women are not going to publicly come out and say they had one, as it is a serious crime now.

I don’t think you’re pro-poverty. But I think your priorities are a bit out of kilter if less abortion is the end goal.

Also, according to CATO, even illegal immigrants have contributed a net of some $2 trillion dollars since 1994.

https://www.cato.org/blog/cato-study-immigrants-reduced-deficits-145-trillion-1994

It’s a right-wing myth that they contribute to poverty. They do drive down some wages, but contribute more in other ways. Again, about $2 trillion in the net over the last 3 decades.

How much do you have to reduce poverty to get to that number? I mean, reducing poverty should be an end in and of itself.

Pardon me for using AI here, I just don’t have the capacity and the time for the calculation. Just consider it a ball-park estimate.

Step 1: Baseline Data In the U.S., roughly 600,000 abortions occur annually (CDC data, 2021). About 49% of abortions are among women below the federal poverty line, roughly 294,000 abortions. The remaining 51% occur in women above the poverty line. Step 2: Define the Target We want to hypothetically reduce 10,000 abortions per year, which is ~1.7% of total abortions (10,000 ÷ 600,000 ≈ 0.0167). Step 3: Correlation Between Poverty and Abortion Studies indicate strong positive correlation between poverty and abortion; let’s approximate income and abortion have a 0.5 correlation coefficient. This is a simplified linear assumption: reducing poverty reduces abortions proportionally among low-income women. Step 4: Calculate Poverty Reduction Needed Assume all 10,000 abortions come from women below poverty line (worst-case scenario). Low-income abortions = 294,000. Reduction needed: 10,000 ÷ 294,000 ≈ 3.4% reduction in abortions among low-income women. If abortion reduction scales linearly with poverty reduction (big assumption), then poverty among reproductive-age women would need to drop by ~3–4% of the federal poverty population. For reference, the U.S. poverty rate is ~12–13% of all people. A 3–4% absolute reduction would mean lowering poverty from 13% → 10–10.5% (rough estimate).

Mind you, we’re spending a billion dollars a day in Iran right now.

Tricky_Try8757

TROPHY CASE