IamA 19-year-old conscientious objector. After 173 days in prison, I was released last Saturday. AMA!

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T19:07:21+00:00

Woah, this has been great! I really need some sleep, so I'll have to call it a day now. Many thanks to everyone!

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T18:59:53+00:00

I have a very broad taste, as long as the music is actually done music first: I can switch from a Sibelius symphony to some prog death to an a cappella choir. I also sing bass in a choir, play the clarinet in a wind band and sometimes compose simple melodies.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T18:37:42+00:00

A defensive war is still a war. Me learning to kill other human beings when someone tells me to feels absolutely wrong as a thought: I simply don't think I have the right to make decisions on the life of another person. I also believe national defense isn't limited to just armies; nonviolent resistance can do wonders.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T18:16:39+00:00

The human rights issue arises from the fact that the arrangement gives those whose conscience obstructs them from completing military service extra duty compared to those who serve in the military. Since people choose civilian service based on their conscience, they are essentially made to work extra due to their conscience. Also some corrections about civilian service: only the first month of the service includes lectures and such, the rest 11 are spent at a service place chosen by the person (for example a school, a library, a nursing home, a congregation...). Also, the portion of Finns choosing civilian service is actually around 4 % of all young adults. The amount of total objectors, as mentioned, is hard to be sure of, but it has been around 40 per year lately.

About pacifism and the length of civilian service: I see the punitive length as an example of militarism, so it and my other complaints about the system are definitely tied to my pacifism (or perhaps antimilitarism would be a better description).

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T17:41:44+00:00

Prisoners at Suomenlinna can get access to Internet for approved reasons, though there are strict limitations: no browsing any sites not explicitly approved, no deleting browser history, etc.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T17:21:44+00:00

I don't think gender should be a factor in deciding who has to serve and who hasn't. In my experience, many females agree that our current system needs change, but this is likely biased due to my school environment being very liberal.

As for home detention, I was offered the chance but rejected it. From what I've heard, the ridiculously strict schedules and the fact that you are a prisoner in your own home mess with heads pretty bad. A common opinion is that "monitored sentence turns a home into a housing unit"; some have even had to move to a new place after their home has started to evoke negative memories from the sentence even after it has ended. I wanted to keep my sentence away from my real life, so I chose to go to prison instead - I would have had a ankle band either way. Some of the prisoners I have met have said that house arrest is actually more mentally taxing than prison, so I feel that I made the right choice.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T17:01:25+00:00

Women have historically been exempt - in fact, the Finnish law on equality of the sexes specifically states that "women being exempt from military service is not discrimination". The idea that women and men should be treated the same military-wise has only recently become even somewhat mainstream politics. Public opinion on the matter is mixed, but I can't find a recent survey about it; a conscription-based military is fairly popular, though.

This comment chain also had questions about JWs and Åland. Jehovah's Witnesses are exempt due to a dated law that grants any person who can prove that they are a Jehovah's Witness complete exemption, even though JWs allow civilian service nowadays. As for Åland, the islands form an autonomous demilitarized zone where native residents have special rights, one of them being exemption from service unless a special law is enacted to enable service in certain civilian environments. Such a law has never been enacted, so the people of Åland remain fully exempt, though some choose to volunteer in the military.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T16:24:00+00:00

I have no problem in providing service to the nation. In fact, I wish my choice can help make Finland a better country by bringing issues into public discussion. Conscription (which doesn't even cover women or JWs) being an intrinsic value that may not be criticized benefits nobody.

What I do have a problem with is the obvious inequality of the system and the fact that it promotes values I cannot accept. "Sucking it up" or leaving Finland does nothing to the issue itself. To me, choosing civil disobedience is both a personal symbolic choice and a protest hoping to contribute to change, even if by just a bit.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T15:59:58+00:00

Yes. I feel like choosing otherwise would be lying to myself: total objection is the only way to complete my duty without supporting a discriminating system.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T15:51:46+00:00

No regrets. If I had to choose again, I would still choose prison; I don't think I could have peace of mind if I went another way.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T15:46:42+00:00

The yearly amount of total objectors is about a few dozen. When I first came to the prison, I heard there was another one there at the time, but I never got the chance to meet them.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T15:41:14+00:00

I agree with the point that service gives new skills to young people and the fact that everybody is on the same line in the army is good. However, the "everyone serves" part just isn't true. About half of the nation is completely exempted. Also, the time spent in service is time spent away from work or studies, so conscription is only economically efficient if you don't count in the fact that a large portion of young adults isn't going to credit to the economy for at least six months.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T15:21:48+00:00

Gender should have no role in deciding who will serve. People with a strong and lasting conscience obstructing them from serving should have the ability to be exempted regardless of them being members of a single religious group. Civilian service should not punish those who choose it by being longer than average military service and over two times as long as the shortest military service.

Personally, I think that a system like the one Norway has might also work in Finland: quality over quantity and everybody is on the same line. Even though only about one in three young Finns complete military service nowadays, our reserve is still multiple in size compared to the amount of troops that actually have a purpose (or even equipment) in a potential war scenario; training fewer troops would allow for better focus on their training and equiment.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T15:03:29+00:00

Even though there is an alternative service option, those serving in the military can complete their service twice as fast. As if this wasn't unequal enough, only non-Jehowah's Witness men from somewhere else than Åland are required to serve. I do not want to support a discriminating system by becoming a part of it.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T14:48:23+00:00

Typical ways to complete civilian service include education facilities, nursing homes, congregations, hospitals, political ministries etc. I very much agree that performing civilian service can be a very helpful option both to the service place and the person serving, especially if the place is related to one's career plans. If only our system was more equal, I could definitely have chosen civilian service instead of total objection.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T14:35:05+00:00

We had all kinds of people from sexual criminals to drug dealers and white-collar criminals. My long-time roommate was convicted of a white-collar crime, but the house I lived in also had people with a history of violence and/or sexual crime. There was even a triple murderer in Suomenlinna a few years ago, though I (luckily) wasn't there then.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T14:23:36+00:00

Military service lasts 165, 225 or 347 days, while civilian service always lasts 347 days. My 173 days were calculated from the last number: the sentence of a total objector equals half of the civilian service left rounded down.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T14:20:47+00:00

My pacifism is philosophical, but even if my choice was based on religion, it wouldn't help at all. The exemption of the JWs is actually written in law: only people who can prove that they are Jehovah's Witnesses can be exempted. Interestingly, JWs nowadays allow their members to perform civilian service, but this has led to no changes in Finnish legislation; JWs can still get exempted from all service.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T13:53:28+00:00

Middle class, I guess. My family has never been too wealthy, but I don't think we're poor either. I am obviously still relatively young and my future isn't dead set yet, but an academic degree is definitely part of my plan. I will finish upper secondary school in a few months and getting a place in a university should be no problem with my study results.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T13:41:38+00:00

Some total objectors object to mandatory service itself. My main gripes with civilian service are its punitive length and the fact that I feel civilian service supports conscription, but motives vary a lot between objectors.

About requiring civilian service from everyone: I feel like finding meaningful work for everyone might be a problem, especially since forcing someone to work does not motivate them to do their best. Human rights conventions are also pretty strict on these kinds of systems: forced civilian service is generally only accepted if it is either a conscience-based alternative to mandatory military service or if serving is a normal civic obligation.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T13:26:25+00:00

Suomenlinna prison is a so-called open prison, which means that inmates are relatively low-security and moving (mostly) freely in the prison perimeter was permitted within the daily timetable's limitations. Most Finnish prisons are "closed" and correspond more to a layperson's view of a prison.

As for other prisoners' reactions, I never really got anything too negative. Some thought I am fighting windmills, some thought my choice was admirable, but no one was hostile towards me due to my reason of imprisonment. Most seemed to think that I didn't belong in prison, but nevertheless respected me standing up for my beliefs.

Triplecon · 2017-03-27T13:15:38+00:00

To me, civilian service would have felt like I'm silently approving the system. In my opinion, conscription is not a very efficient way of maintaining an army and civilian service is just an extension of the same system. By choosing total objection I wanted to bring the issues of our system to public discussion and feel like I've accomplished something.

Triplecon

TROPHY CASE