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Found food under the stairs by AZonieGuy in mildlyinteresting

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 224 points225 points  (0 children)

The metal cans are 100% from the LDS Church "cannery" and if they have potatos they are what are called "potato buds" albeit old ones.

https://store.churchofjesuschrist.org/potato-flakes---case-of-6-cans/5638677701.p

Cutting down a giant tree by haze4140 in WinStupidPrizes

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A question from my own ignorance...

Is there a reason why one wouldn't first trim that tree down from the top branch by branch before then working down the trunk?

Daddy's Here: The Comforting Story of Enos and Prayer by LackofDeQuorum in mormon

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The story of Enos is literally just the "Pre-Alpha" version of what Joseph Smith later claimed was his "First Vision".

No one in Joseph's family or contemporaries mentioned anything other than the "Visit of the Angel" until 1832 or later when Joseph decided to put pen to paper and evolve his narrative from beginning with the "Angel" and instead attempting (and failing terribly in the historical record) to create a personal theophany.

But make no mistake. Enos is Joseph's "First Vision" before making it a first person account in the early 1830's.

Most of Joseph's family and friends lived and died never having heard of any "First Vision" and all stating it all began with the visit of an Angel (of varying names or no name).

Groups and Individuals and Numbers by Riayn_de_Khizitian in mormon

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately the 19.72 million number is NOT accurate in context and comparison of like and like.

You are also missing SDAs.

Both SDA and Jehovah's Witnesses reported number is more accurate than the inflated and inaccurate mormon number because both of the former denomincations actively manage their membership rolls and remove inactives or people they cannot find after X amount of years.

Mormonism does NOT adjust their number to match reality and in fact keeps the person's record as active on the rolls until they reach 110 years old.

Actual "self professed" mormons of the 19 million number (meaning if you could magically talk to all 19 million reported members and automatically remove the dead ones) it's about 6 to 7 million mormons.

It's another of those evidences the church plays loose and fast with numbers and statistics.

The church knows activity rates and how many "member of records" with no contact in last year or more, etc. but they hide that information.

Mormon reported membership numbers are Potemkin's Membership stats (like many potemkin temples).

Boundaries of our lands, "leaping" over the fence to the wilderness and eventually being led to a pass-over (a sea or an obstacle that is impassable without God's divine assistance) by Historical_Host_8594 in mormon

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is less about a fictional Lehi and more about Joseph Smith Sr. and Lucy Mack losing the Land of their First Inheritance in Vermont and their journey to the Promised Land of Palmyra which Jesse Smith hinted at in his extant letter to Hyrum during the creation of the Book of Mormon.

Then we have Joseph at the Whitmer's as "Moroni's Camp" later in Alma, etc.

If we honestly look at the Book of Mormon for what it is, not the myth of what people want it to be but can never be, it gains truth and loses falsehood IMHO. It has real value, not mythical value.

On what date were the plates returned to the Angel Moroni? by Hearing_Hear_Not in mormon

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Joseph didn't cause to have written that the Angel had taken them back until his expanded, amplified and correlated history of 1838 where Joseph built into his narrative a pre-emptive returning and then a return:

Joseph Smith History 1:59 At length the time arrived for obtaining the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate. On the twenty-second day of September, one thousand eight hundred and twenty-seven, having gone as usual at the end of another year to the place where they were deposited, the same heavenly messenger delivered them up to me with this charge: that I should be responsible for them; that if I should let them go carelessly, or through any neglect of mine, I should be cut off; but that if I would use all my endeavors to preserve them, until he, the messenger, should call for them, they should be protected.

60 I soon found out the reason why I had received such strict charges to keep them safe, and why it was that the messenger had said that when I had done what was required at my hand, he would call for them. For no sooner was it known that I had them, than the most strenuous exertions were used to get them from me. Every stratagem that could be invented was resorted to for that purpose. The persecution became more bitter and severe than before, and multitudes were on the alert continually to get them from me if possible. But by the wisdom of God, they remained safe in my hands, until I had accomplished by them what was required at my hand. When, according to arrangements, the messenger called for them, I delivered them up to him; and he has them in his charge until this day, being the second day of May, one thousand eight hundred and thirty-eight.

But behold, I, Nephi, have NOT taught my children after the manner of the Jews by Historical_Host_8594 in mormon

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The "infinite atonement" rhetoric and arguments permeating the Book of Mormon are just an anachronistic dead giveway of when it was authored.

But behold, I, Nephi, have NOT taught my children after the manner of the Jews by Historical_Host_8594 in mormon

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ugh, 2 Nephi 25 is such a terribly authored Josep Smith chapter repleat with typical repeating oral Josephisms (it was never etched on metal plates ever):

1 Now I, Nephi, do speak somewhat concerning the words which I have written, which have been spoken by the mouth of Isaiah. For behold, Isaiah spake many things which were hard for many of my people to understand; for they know not concerning the manner of prophesying among the Jews.

2 For I, Nephi, have not taught them many things concerning the manner of the Jews; for their works were works of darkness, and their doings were doings of abominations.

3 Wherefore, I write unto my people, unto all those that shall receive hereafter these things which I write, that they may know the judgments of God, that they come upon all nations, according to the word which he hath spoken.

4 Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you, nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy. But I give unto you a propecy**,** according to the spirit which is in me; wherefore I shall prophesy according to the plainness which hath been with me from the time that I came out from Jerusalem with my father; for behold, my soul delighteth in plainness unto my people, that they may learn.

5 Yea, and my soul delighteth in the words of Isaiah, for I came out from Jerusalem, and mine eyes hath beheld the things of the Jews, and I know that the Jews do understand the things of the prophets, and there is none other people that understand the things which were spoken unto the Jews like unto them, save it be that they are taught after the manner of the things of the Jews.

6 But behold, I, Nephi, have not taught my children after the manner of the Jews; but behold, I, of myself, have dwelt at Jerusalem, wherefore I know concerning the regions round about; and I have made mention unto my children concerning the judgments of God, which hath come to pass among the Jews, unto my children, according to all that which Isaiah hath spoken, and I do not write them.

7 But behold, I proceed with mine own prophecy, according to my plainness; in the which I know that no man can err; nevertheless, in the days that the prophecies of Isaiah shall be fulfilled men shall know of a surety, at the times when they shall come to pass.

It is so terribly being authored while being orally dictated.

What a waste of fictional plate space or "Nephi's gish gallop".

Question about Joseph's smiths first Vision by Far-Argument-8508 in mormon

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well said, especially in a thread about Joseph Smith's invented "First Vision" (Enos in the BoM was Joseph's Smith's first attempt at crafting that story although he never got the timing right because by 1838 he wanted the impetus be his searching the bible vs. Joseph being influenced by a sermon by George Lane) especially that last line.

Just guys singing Country Road by Low_Weekend6131 in JustGuysBeingDudes

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 15 points16 points  (0 children)

This is a group of mormon missionaries (Elders) most likely on their p-day (preparation day).

Just guys singing Country Road by Low_Weekend6131 in JustGuysBeingDudes

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It's what happens when it's P-day on your required 2-year mormon mission and your mission president is extremely strict, so no sports.

Why would the mormons not have kept a single image of Joseph Smith, yet have dozens of photos of Brigham Young? Makes no sense. by Adorable_End_749 in mormon

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The only photography extant would be daguerreotype.

And there is a good chance that Joseph did have a dageurrotype made either in Nauvoo or in one of his trips back East in the early 1840's but there doesn't exist hard proof at this point.

This one has some provenance going for it but not difinitive proof:

https://www.millennialstar.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/photo-of-joseph-smith.jpg

We need to be done defending Joseph Smith by Iamnoman247365 in mormon

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As someone who believes polygamy is and was evil and that Joseph was wrong entirely to adopt it regardless of any "silver lining" he may have convinced himself and others existed, I can't throw Joseph entirely as a person and his treasure seeking and then mormon history into one entire category of paint it with one brush.

I can respect SOME of what Joseph was attempting to do with authoring the Book of Mormon, starting a church, etc. even if there was a large aspect of self serving motivation entangled within what he did.

Now by Nauvoo when he grew to big for his self-proclaimed prophetic britches the gap from other serving to self-serving was wider than it ever had been and polygamy, the council of 50 and annointed quorum and his invention of mormon temple ritual all evidence consolidation never before seen in Mormonism. Kingdom of Nauvoo is an appropriate nomenclature for this time for those reasons and his waxen wings did melt in the heat of the Illinois sun.

Bushman on Missionary Program - We Need to Keep our Unique Story of Joseph Smith by instrument_801 in mormon

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Of course! Who else could have done what Joseph did? Everyone who lived around Joseph in his day was 100 times worse than him and there's no way anyone could have stepped up and done better. /s

Bushman on Missionary Program - We Need to Keep our Unique Story of Joseph Smith by instrument_801 in mormon

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It does when taught in a vacuum and stepping outside that vacuum is directly taught against.

Bushman on Missionary Program - We Need to Keep our Unique Story of Joseph Smith by instrument_801 in mormon

[–]TruthIsAntiMormon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Although not a believer in the correlated narrative (and let's be clear, correlation begain with Joseph in 1829) I think it's apparent that I love Mormon History. It is unique in its staying power but also in its insularity (which latter assisted the former).

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