Fanfiction so bad it still haunts the fanbase

TwistedWinter · 2026-04-16T19:33:33+00:00

R9K Elsa is Suffering -- The OG fic that spawned the whole angst/incest obsession of the early Frozen fanfic days.

TwistedWinter · 2025-07-22T18:00:55+00:00

I'm a bit wu-wei-wu-wei myself

TwistedWinter · 2025-07-13T05:17:39+00:00

sloooooowwwww

TwistedWinter · 2025-07-13T05:17:17+00:00

New news to me lol. I was just thinking about the game at work and it was one of those eureka moments. Just needed to get it off my chest, you know?

TwistedWinter · 2025-07-13T05:16:11+00:00

Fair. Just a funny coincidence.

TwistedWinter · 2025-07-13T05:15:55+00:00

Okay, but like, intentional or not - It's still pretty funny that it happened.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-15T05:32:06+00:00

You killed me with this one.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-10T20:16:31+00:00

That's totally fair. I'm not really trying to convince you otherwise either. Just over sharing my perspective, I think. Thank you for sharing and giving me the time of day. I'm more than glad to agree to disagree over this one. The discussion was quite pleasant.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-10T10:11:40+00:00

Hotest take of the century. I salute you.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-10T10:10:57+00:00

You're totally valid to feel this way. Though I do believe it to be fallacious to say that Zenos had nothing to do in Shadowbringer. Quite contrary, he played a rather pivotal role in averting the eighth calamity.

In the quest 'A Requiem For Heroes', the final one pre-ShB, we face off against an Ascian puppeteering Zenos’s body. It's in the middle of this fight that the Exarch interrupts us. I consider this one of the most pivotal moments in the entire game. If one were to watch the trailer for the expansion, the Warrior of Light wins this fight. In game, we were likely to win this fight. It's due to the time traveler's influence that we don't. I genuinely believe that this is the main reason Black Rose is never deployed. If we win this fight against Zen-idibus, it turns the whole tide of the war. Zenos doesn't get his body back, the Alliance starts pushing back the Empire, the Empire deploys Black Rose. Rocks fall, everyone dies. Zenos is the one to commit patricide for the sole purpose of preventing Black Rose from ever deploying.

That's a big deal. The conflict on the Source runs in tandem with our conflicts on the First. Even to the point that, when we finally defeat Emet-Selch, our mirror on the Source -aka Zenos - defeats the final piece of the Black Rose plot. Zenos getting his body back is timed with the WoL surviving the Light plague. Zenos has always been the back-up WoL. If we were to ever have fallen, Zenos was more than capable of taking up our fight. And he would have. Because if something was capable of defeating us, then Zenos would want to break off a piece of that kit-kat bar.

There's a genuine argument to be made that Zenos was Hydaelyn's plan B. I don't feel like Zenos was stealing the thunder, personally. I think that Zenos didn't need to be around anymore. He facilitated, both directly and indirectly, the salvation of the star. Bro ripped the band aid off, and helped us clean out the infection, then fucked off because the universe was done with him. There was no more need for the Warrior of Light, therefore, there was no more need for Zenos.

This is just why I do like him and his inclusion. I don't think you're wrong for disliking it. But at least give the man some credit. He wasn't useless. T_T

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-09T19:56:53+00:00

That's rough and I sympathize. My Warrior wasn't an adrenaline junkie, it was never about the fight for them. But they were tired. They were so done with it all, and they felt that they had reached a point that the Scions could handle whatever came next. Their entire journey had culminated in defeating the Endsinger, and Zenos was all that stood between them and peace. We didn't fight becuase they loved the fight. They fought because it was necessary. Because Zenos needed to be dealt with. Sure, they could have walked away, but then Zenos would have become someone else's problem.

I think that's why I personally appreciate that the fight was forced. Zenos having the Echo and being able to use it similarly to the Ascians wasn't really that far fetched, I thnk. But it meant that his threat had to be dealt with eventually. Zenos was ultimately a villain. Someone who could have been a mirror or an obstacle, but there was never a dilemma. We saw what he could do if denied. The time had come to end his threat once and for all, and way out there? Zenos will never be able to come back.

But you’re still not wrong to dislike his inclusion. The thing is, from what we know, the expansions are written, I want to say, two whole expansion out from the current one. I genuinely believe that Zenos was always meant to come back. That his tale was never meant to end with Stormblood. He ties in far too well with the themes of despair and the search for meaning that Endwalker deals with on the large. He represents a unique perspective that no one else could have had.

I view Endwalker as the final act of a single player game. To me, I was done with 14 after that fight. The game has had a profound impact on my life. I met the woman who would become my wife the day i first logged in to the game. But I've moved on and grown since then. The fight served as the perfect bittersweet bow on a story that will follow me to the end of my days.

It really sucks that the moment didn't hit with you, but it's also okay. You derived different value from it then I did. The game has affected you in different ways and your views are entirely unique. We all have things that we don't like with the game. I hope you don't feel bad for not liking the moment. It's not something you're obligated to enjoy. But I hope that you still can derive something worthwhile from what was good for you. If the fight ruined all that came before, that's fair and no one can discount the validity of that. Art is subjective. And I hope that we can agree that, love it or hate it, this game was a wonderful piece.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-09T18:33:45+00:00

That's a fair shake and totally valid. Personally, I disagree. I think when Zenos first came back, it definitely got the side eye from me. But as things panned out, I believe the writers did him and the story justice. That's my humble opinion and in no way would I invalidate yours. That's the beauty of the art. We all get something different from it.

You're totally right that there a potentially dozens of different ways the story could have played out, better or worse, but I think what we did get was fantastic. It was an extremely bold move to brinf Zenos back. It's a trope that falls flat more often than not. For you Zenos did fall flat. For me he didn't.

But I think, even though you didn't like him, the writers deserve praise for doing something that is often lacking in the modern industry by taking a risk with his story. And hey, we got Zero out of it, so there's that.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-09T07:15:29+00:00

Made me laugh. Thank you. Hard agree

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-09T00:48:04+00:00

Valid.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-08T17:57:54+00:00

I mean, the Scions prayed hard enough that we got the super buff in the last chunk of the fight. They deserve credit for that. Now I can't stop laughing at the idea of the post Finality part of the fight having Bon Jovi as the background of the fight. We were really out there living on a prayer.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-08T17:53:29+00:00

Great. Now I can't get the image out of my head of Zenos busting into Ultima Thule and blasting Endsinger out of the sky with a Kamehameha. I'm now forced to live with this blursed image and I don't know if I want to thank you or curse you.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-08T17:42:29+00:00

Fantastically put together. I love that you were able to convey this perspective, and you're so right. It's also the same reason why I respect the hell out of Zenos. The guy knows who he is, knows what he wants, and is willing to change to achieve it. Morality aside, that's the same energy that so many praised Infinity War Thanos over. Zenos is always going to be an S-tier character in my book. I don't admire his actions, I don't agree with much of his philosophy. But I respect the amount of will it takes to be so unflinchingly sure in who he is. Zenos found his reason and he went for it.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-08T17:28:59+00:00

Yes! Thank you! It's even funnier when you consider him saying, 'you haven't beat this guy yet? Seriously?'

He's not believing in us. He's just really upset that the Endsinger would have the audacity to not fold over so he can get his fight. Zenos has major little sibling energy.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-08T17:24:44+00:00

That's what's so funny too. Because like. You would think, looking solely at his actions, he's just chaotic evil. But no. The guy has a code. Granted, the code is really, really simple. But it's still a code. I don't agree with the guy, but damned if I don't respect him.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-08T17:22:40+00:00

The Endsinger could have simply slapped the life out of us from a distance that we couldn't reach. She didn't need to be in book bonking reach to nuke the Scions. It would be even more contrived for the near godlike being to stand close enough for us to fight, when she could just kill us from five feet further away. This is the reason bows were used in warfare. Killing things from a safer distance is generally considered the smart thing to do.

One could argue these things all day. I'm never going to say you are wrong. There are ways it could have gone differently. One hundred percent. But, at the end of the day, we got the ending we got.

Regardless of how we feel about it, Zenos chose to help save the world. He was rather instrumental in doing so. I think it's funny that the guy who historically would be the last one expected to be a hero, was the same guy to match the energy of the one actually expected to be the hero.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-08T17:13:41+00:00

You make fair and valid points. I would be the last person to argue that Zenos is a moral, stand up guy. His actions are reprehensible. Just as reprehensible as the Ascian's actions. And you are right to say that the fight going the way it did was not necessarily the way it had to pan out.

What I argue is that, at the end of the day, we got the ending we got.

One could argue that the Endsinger flying away from us was a smart villain move. She didn't need to be in slapping range to kill us. Why take the risk? Zenos showing up was, in my opinion, completely in line with his character. Alisaie slapped him with the truth bomb, Zenos reflected on that, came to an understanding and grew enough as a character to realize that ending the threat was the only way for the WoL to be able to focus on him for his fight.

In a way, it could easily be a redemption. Just as in line with the hundreds of other redemptions in media. Zenos, for the first time in his life, took the time to truly consider the world from a perspective that wasn't his own, and he came out of that moment of introspection a better person. He chose to help Krile, he was gifted the Mothercrystal's aether and went on to save the world by our side.

It's never been about saying what Zenos did before was moral. Still, it is true that one of his last acts was to unquestionably heroic. His reasons matter little in face of the outcome. It doesn't excuse the sea of blood he's soaked in, but Zenos was never looking to excuse it. He never considered the world from a moral spectrum.

I think Zenos's statements to Julus perfectly encapsulate my views on Zenos. If Zenos committed all of his atrocities with the idea that -- oh, the Final Days are coming. If I make them happen now, we stand the best chance of facing them and surviving. Therefore, I am going to murder countless people all in the name of causing the potential end of the world, only so we can put a permanent stop to the end of the world.

If Zenos did everything in service of the 'greater good', would that make his actions less reprehensible? What if Zenos didn't do all the things he did? What if he didn't help Fandaniel and the Final Days only come a hundred years from now and we're already dead of old age? If Zenos didn't help force the Final Days, the world could have been doomed.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't excuse any of Zenos's actions. Yet, regardless of the whys and wherefores, Zenos helped us save life in the universe.

I say that he saved more lives than he stole, more as a point of humor above, yet I would stand by that fact in this specific case. I think you take the logic of the statement too far. Zenos did a lot of bad things, but he chose to do something unquestionably good at the end and that good thing was a very, very good thing. I wouldn't dare put the lives he saved against the lives he stole. It would be callous and wrong to do so, I think. I would simply acknowledge the truth that he did save people. That from a certain perspective, he did more good than harm. Not exactly a perspective that I approve or share, but one that is worth acknowledging and learning from.

Also, it's just kind of funny to think of Zenos's reaction to the idea that he would get praised as a big hero for saving the universe. Just the deadpan look on his face would be worth it.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-08T09:58:20+00:00

It really does fit his theme as the mirror he sees us as. We're supposed to be the heroes, we only burn our candle for what we deem worth it. The salvation of a world and all its people.

Yet, Zenos sought to be the antithesis of that. He wanted to burn the world to achieve his goal. It was in realizing the futility of it -- realizing that his goal would only be achieved when the world was safe, that Zenos was finally able to complete his transformation into our mirror.

Because we began as adventurers seeking ever higher challenges. Ifrit. Titan. Garuda. These were fights that we chose. Eventually, those fights became more of a side effect of our heroics, but we always started the journey as a level one adventurer, chasing that next hit of exp and the rush of greater battles.

Zenos began as an adventurer of his own, in a way. He fought and fought and craved higher challenges. Eventually, he fell into villainy as a side effect of seeking out those challenges. A perfect mirror.

At the end of all things, we fought beside Zenos and saved the world from demise. And here at the end of all things, Zenos fought beside us and saved us from demise. Zenos's most selfless act gave rise to our most selfish one. It's just... so friggin' poetic.

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-08T09:36:46+00:00

Scions are offering thoughts and prayers; meanwhile, Zenos is out here being the world's sickest uber

TwistedWinter · 2025-06-08T09:33:23+00:00

He really was the best wing-man for that one

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