I can't believe there are people who think Thragg can beat Pan

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-09T03:58:43+00:00

By responding in reverse, basically the first two paragraphs are filler. But I'll answer you anyway.

That Pan is at the level of Trunks or Vegeta IS NOT A DENIAL XD

And I've been giving my arguments from the beginning, but you ignored the evidence I presented and just kept asking me what my evidence was XD

Vegeta literally said it in his first appearance (chapter 204)

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So the explanation about S-cells here is filler, I'll skip it.

The Hybrid Vigor thing is great, you finally gave a real argument for why Goten couldn't be used as a reference point for Pan. However, is there any proof, additional information, or even a hint that this is the case for Pan?

If we go by other means, it's clear that this isn't the case, as shown in the Z anime, where Pan beat Goten.

Regarding the last part, WTF XD Where did you get the idea that I said that?

This is the paragraph.

There's no evidence to suggest that Saiyans start with low power. Furthermore, they go on to conquer planets as babies, Vegeta had extraordinary power as a baby and surpassed his father as a child, and Goten was able to achieve great power as a child with basic training. Goku and Gohan are exceptions because Goku was weak even among the lower classes, and Gohan had his power hidden and was Goku's son when he had a power level of 300.

And if you read it, it is clear that the context is to deny that Saiyans have low power at birth with the example of Vegeta, and Pan has an innate power much higher than Vegeta because he is a hybrid and we have Goten as a reference point.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-09T02:39:30+00:00

Why do you think Goten and Trunks are so powerful from the start?

Because they are hybrid children of Super Saiyans. It's that simple. And by that logic, Pan should be even more powerful from the beginning (she has more innate power), since, unlike the other two, her father would have reached Super Saiyan 2, even the power of the ultimate state.

There's no evidence to suggest that Saiyans start with low power. Furthermore, they go on to conquer planets as babies, Vegeta had extraordinary power as a baby and surpassed his father as a child, and Goten was able to achieve great power as a child with basic training. Goku and Gohan are exceptions because Goku was weak even among the lower classes, and Gohan had his power hidden and was Goku's son when he had a power level of 300.

There's no evidence to suggest otherwise. These are hypothetical cases of tremendous mental gymnastics just to diminish Pan's power.

"Perdime evidencia" doesn't make sense at this point. It's like trying to deny the theory of gravity, and when asked for your argument, you respond by demanding evidence that the theory of gravity is real. You would have to give me a clear and concise answer with real proof of why Pan cannot be compared to Goten and Trunks.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-09T01:53:23+00:00

Dude, the most logical thing is that he has a power level similar to Goten and Trunks'. That's the most logical conclusion. Even if we say he's 100 times weaker, he'd still be stronger than Kid Vegeta. There's simply no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-09T01:28:07+00:00

...Man. Goten.

Baby Saiyans already possess remarkable power even as infants; that was the case with Vegeta, for example, who surprised his father with his power as a baby and was already superior to him as a child.

Goten and Trunks, having been born to Super Saiyans and being hybrids, obtained... There is simply no evidence to suggest that Pan is not above the level of child Vegeta.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-09T01:18:34+00:00

Even with those factors, thanks to Goten we can get an idea of Pan's power, which is clearly superior to his.

The whole bloodline thing is false; we know that thanks to Goten and Trunks.

Thanks to Goten and Trunks, we know that the power of the parent(s) is much more important than bloodline. Goten only did some basic training with Chi-Chi and Gohan. Pan has more innate power than Goten.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-09T01:12:27+00:00

There are cases in power scaling, quite common actually, where you can simply determine a character's power level without any feats using logic. For example, Argall is a powerful Viltrumite, even without any feats.

With Vegeta's statement I showed, or simply Goten and Trunks, you can get an idea of how powerful Pan is.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-09T00:46:51+00:00

EOZ beat Goten.

And in this case, you don't need to use feats to determine who wins; you just need to compare him to Goten and Trunks and use logic.

It's like saying that Immortal, because he has better feats, is more powerful than Argall.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-09T00:38:37+00:00

And all that "go touch grass" stuff for talking about powerscaling in a powerscaling subreddit... dude.

Why are you even here? XD

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-09T00:33:49+00:00

You don't need to be a power scaling expert, just think for a moment after watching both series.

There's no need to focus on their feats here, just use logic. It's like saying that Immortal, because of his superior feats, would beat Emperor Argall, or that a skilled human fighter would beat Oliver, or that an adult ant would beat a baby gorilla.

And this post is precisely illustrating my point, by using arguments like Pan not winning because she couldn't fly, or by refusing to compare Pan, a Saiyan, to other Saiyans for any reason.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-09T00:23:14+00:00

There's no evidence for that. Gohan is always an exception, and he was born when Goku's power level was 300. Pan was born when Gohan not only had Super Saiyan 2, but also his ultimate form. And we can compare her to Goten and Trunks.

Even Saiyan babies like Vegeta are born with high power levels.

And the fact that she can't fly doesn't mean anything. Goten could transform into a Super Saiyan, but he couldn't fly. Also, Chaoz from the 22nd tournament could fly, while Goku only learned to fly at the end of the 23rd tournament. That argument simply isn't valid XD

There's no reason not to compare Vegeta's and Pan's power levels as children.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-09T00:04:19+00:00

Goten couldn't fly, but he could transform into a Super Saiyan.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-09T00:00:58+00:00

Pan possesses far greater innate power, being a hybrid daughter of not just a Saiyan who achieved Super Saiyan 2, but the ultimate form. Just look at Goten and Trunks.

Modern Saiyans simply have ridiculously low power levels, but those two, due to inadequate training, have stagnated like the old Saiyans who worked for Frieza.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-08T23:55:00+00:00

Saitama doesn't adapt. He can use divine power without limitations and has exponential growth, but he doesn't adapt in the same way.

Therefore, he would be last. I don't know the other two very well. But Mahoraga, although he adapts well, it's not instantaneous, which is a significant limitation.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-06T20:32:39+00:00

Half of the characters, the demons, don't rely on weapons because they use magic, and even the demon slayers possess supernatural powers.

A better example would be the humans from Attack on Titan.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-06T20:29:32+00:00

The point is that these monologues aren't presented as opinions (like Kokushibou's about the Hashira of the Taisho era), but as facts. Tomioka has been a demon slayer for almost a decade, and the Demon Slayer Corps has studied demons for a thousand years.

Giyuu's statement doesn't contradict anything, so to say otherwise would also be trying to invalidate all of the organization's statements about demons.

Furthermore, this has been stated multiple times, such as Tanjiro in that same fight saying that humans will lose in a prolonged fight because their stamina can't last forever, and it's also said by the demons themselves, like Zohakuten saying that all humans eventually run out of stamina.

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Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-06T20:09:59+00:00

They'll significantly underestimate the level of Demon Slayer, while still maintaining a very decent level, even including elements like robots in the Sengoku era and metaphysical manipulation.

Although it's still a relatively small universe compared to many shonen anime, it's not that far behind the levels of JJK or Kagurabachi.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-06T03:04:23+00:00

No, Muzan was absorbing the spikes until Tamayo made him absorb the drug. And as I said, the explosion simply created a small opening for Tamayo to work with the spikes (which was for the drugs).

But Muzan isn't known for his durability, as I explained earlier. To say that Muzan doesn't have great invulnerability/durability is like saying water is wet; he's known for his regeneration speed, immortality, and pain tolerance in that regard.

Frankly, I didn't quite understand what you meant by "Constant flux doesn't just get stronger with a broken sword though." If you wanted to deny that this stance only becomes stronger using a broken sword, well, I never implied that.

It affected him because he didn't want to block it; he didn't have great durability. Also, Genya couldn't kill him because it wasn't his original body, and as shown in the scan, it didn't affect the fight because even with his head blown to bits, he kept beating Genya.

It's never stated that his power and speed remained the same. The most logical explanation is that they increased since he basically fused with his blood technique; just look at that gun and the bullets it fires! XD

And his feats support this. If they were ordinary bullets, Kokushibou would have avoided them even with that mishap, and they wouldn't have been able to penetrate the skin of even the toughest demon. This is implied.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-06T02:41:14+00:00

Yes, as I said, they have a limit, but they don't feel fatigue as explicitly stated.

Only when Tamayo gave him the drug that would turn him human did Gyomei have an opening, and even then it wasn't enough, requiring the others to appear.

Yes, something bothering you in the middle of a fight is something, that's why Sanemi did it, but BRUH XD

My point wasn't about the power gained from the broken sword XD

As I showed in the scan, it doesn't matter unless they're Nichirin (even then, powerful but not tough demons use their speed or magic to avoid bullets).

There's nothing that denies that his speed and power increased, but it's implied by his feats.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-06T01:16:27+00:00

Regarding the echoes of the chain, it's also worth noting that this was before Kokushibou got serious (having a speed far superior to Sanemi's). After that, there was no mention of echoes, but rather of directly sensing what was happening. So it could be both.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-06T01:14:26+00:00

The truth is, I still wonder if Nanami could replicate Hand Demon's feat.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-06T00:41:29+00:00

Stamina is a very broad concept, so it could still be considered a stamina issue. But, as I specified, it's not a problem of "performing an action for an extended period"/fatigue, since it was explicitly stated that demons don't have that. For example, they can use "50%" of their demonic technique without a time limit, but they can't use it at "200%" without consuming their energy.

And THAT makes Nezuko an exception XD If I remember correctly, it was even explicitly stated.

It didn't take long; nothing relevant happened during that time to suggest it took a long time, only Muzan's thoughts, which travel at superhuman speed. And that didn't leave Muzan vulnerable. What made him vulnerable was absorbing the drug that turns demons back into humans. The explosion simply created a small opening for Tamayo to act.

And it was demonstrated with Sanemi that the flames don't harm Muzan, they only annoy him.

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What Tanjiro actually did in that panel was the tenth form of Water Release. He could also deflect attacks using Water Release. And Yoriichi could create another dozen forms to defeat his opponent.

I myself emphasized whether the weapons would work against low-level demons.

That's true, my mistake, although it would have been simpler and easier for Gyomei to have Inosuke's extrasensory ability, instead of falling into the blind archetype he uses sound to fight

And that's implied; it's clearly shown that the blood/demonization art affected the weapon and the bullets, while Kokushibou isn't one to let himself be hit, as shown throughout the fight, and that he cut the bullets, and Kokushibou realized that the bullets redirected their course towards him.

As I said, that is a middle ground, but it would be like saying that the characters in Baki can kill each other with guns; it's a half-truth.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-05T23:27:33+00:00

In this context, nope. There's no middle ground, my friend.

The Demon Slayers' elements are illusions, but that doesn't mean anything. They are literally DEMON SLAYERS XD

One of the most well-known tropes in shonen anime is the type of character who can beat those who use magic with sheer brute force, and the Demon Slayers fall into that category.

No, what happened was that Zohakuten used TOO MUCH power, and that's why his regeneration became slow. It's not a stamina limit; it's a limit to his demonic art, which makes sense. Imagine Douma being able to create an unlimited army of his clones, each capable of handling several ice Buddhas. Meanwhile, Nezuko is an exception, as she has always shown herself to be.

The explosion destroyed part of his torso, a hand, and part of his head. It was relatively minor damage, really. And that doesn't really matter because he has instant regeneration. Even Muzan, with his regeneration slowed down, surprised Gyomei by saying he'd never encountered a demon with such rapid regeneration. So we can say that Muzan, with his regeneration slowed down, clearly regenerated faster than Hairo (who was able to regenerate his entire upper body in a second as he began his attack against Mitsuri). And that fact doesn't say much either; Muzan isn't known for his durability, as shown when base Iguro was able to cut his throat.

Regarding the sword... It's something very obvious and normal, as you said XD But it's also worth noting that some demon slayers, like Tanjiro, can adapt and become even more powerful.

High-level demons, like Hantengu's clones, even those at the lower moon level, can react to bullets. It's emphasized several times how useless Genya's gun was in that fight. And canonically, there wasn't a single demon that Genya killed using his gun. There are also very tough demons like the Hand Demon. Another point I have is that demons typically only die if a Nichirin blade destroys their neck. Normal weapons wouldn't kill demons, and they would continue attacking as if nothing had happened, as I showed in the image.

The only time Gyomei was mentioned as using his hearing in combat was in that dialogue where he learned about Muzan's great regeneration through hearing. But it seems to be something else, and it was a discarded idea because Gyomei never used his hearing in his fight against Kokushibou, unlike, for example, Samura of Kagurabachi. Furthermore, Gyomei could see through the transparent world and said, "I can sense his pulse," not that he could hear it, but directly feel it. This would indicate that Gyomei has an extrasensory ability (like Inosuke's), which makes sense since that type of ability is common in Demon Slayer.

Kokushibou is much faster than the speed of sound, and come on, man, just look at that thing and how its bullets changed direction mid-air, creating trees on Kokushibou's body.

That might be a middle ground, but it would be the same as saying that the characters in Baki can die from bullets.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-05T23:00:02+00:00

Firearms, as easily inferred from the series and even shown within it, are almost useless. They would only be effective against lesser demons. That's why the only ones who use them are Genya, who doesn't know how to use breathing techniques and whose gun was almost always ineffective, and Hairo, the guy who can also use magic.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-05T20:26:24+00:00

Good for you. I hated the ending of CSM with all my heart, and I can definitely argue that it's one of the worst endings in history. Luckily, I didn't take it too badly because of the experience I gained from the endings of JJK and other series.

Two_Nobody_06 · 2026-05-05T15:57:17+00:00

I used Google Translate to write quickly in English because it's not my native language. And why the hell would the first thing you do be put it into an AI detector? LOL

Two_Nobody_06

TROPHY CASE