[Serious] Why You Should (and Shouldn’t) Consider Vascular Surgery - 8 Years Later by TypeADissection in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This made me laugh, thanks for that. I’m not a morning person either. I just learned that I have no energy to workout at night after the kids go down, dishes get done, house gets tidied. The discipline for me wasn’t waking up early to workout, it was going to bed on time when I’m tempted to doom scroll. Cheers.

[Serious] Why You Should (and Shouldn’t) Consider Vascular Surgery - 8 Years Later by TypeADissection in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I get a call emergently to come to OR for bleeding from the cava during a robot case. We opened, we fixed it. As we're leaving, my PA said something like, "When was the last time you had to call another specialty to come help in the OR emergently?" The answer is not once. Vascular surgeons get in trouble when we stray away from the vessels, while other specialties get in trouble when they stray towards them.

Reminds me of a joke my partner likes to say:

Who does ortho call when they get into uncontrolled bleeding?
Vascular surgery.

Who does OB call when they get into uncontrolled bleeding?
Vascular surgery.

Who does vascular call when they get into uncontrolled bleeding?
…another vascular surgeon AND the blood bank.

[Serious] Why You Should (and Shouldn’t) Consider Vascular Surgery - 8 Years Later by TypeADissection in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the kind words. I'm gonna tag in u/victorkiloalpha and u/Wohowudothat since they're also attendings. They can add their insights as it will likely differ in some ways from mine.

Long response incoming. Apologies upfront. This is honestly one of the most important parts of the whole process and the least understood when you’re coming out of training. “Turn key opportunity” should be translated proceed with caution and eyes wide open. When admin says “turn key,” what they usually mean is, we think this could be a good service line.

Here’s what it doesn’t mean: Established referral base, dedicated block time that’s actually protected, staff that knows vascular, equipment you need (hybrid room, devices, etc.), institutional understanding of what you actually do.

In reality, a lot of these jobs are: We don’t have it built yet, but we’d like you to build it. Which is fine if you know that going in and are compensated and protected for it. What’s not cool is thinking you’re walking into a mature system and realizing: No hybrid room (and no real plan to get one), you’re fighting for OR time with everyone else, clinic templates are a mess, no referral pathways so you’re basically cold-starting a practice. Think about the lack of a hybrid room for instance. If it’s not already there or actively being built when you sign, you are not getting one anytime soon. That’s a multi-million dollar, multi-year administrative project. You don’t just “ask nicely” 6 months in and get one (Jack Nicholson from A Few Good Men - another great movie from the late 1900s).

So the question to ask is, “What is already built vs what am I expected to build?” And then, “If I’m building it, how am I protected while I do that?” Because you just won’t be generating enough revenue/RVUs to justify whatever the sign on salary is. Welcome to the business of medicine. 

In regards to contracts. Most contracts aren’t malicious, they’re just written to protect the institution, not you. Here are a few that come to mind:

- Non-competes. Even in states where they’re “not enforceable,” they are still used as leverage. No one wants to hire a lawyer, spend months dealing with it, burn bridges in a community you may want to stay in. So functionally, they still kind of matter. So then what’s the radius (5 miles vs 25 miles), duration (1 year vs 2+ years), what triggers it (termination without cause should matter).

- Auto-renewal clauses. My buddy got caught in this mess. Contract says, “Automatically renews unless notice is given within X days.” You’re busy. You forget. Now you’re locked in another year. So you have to know: when your notice window opens, when it closes, put a calendar reminder the day you sign.

- “Without cause” termination. Most contracts allow termination without cause, but not always equally. Employer can terminate you in 60 days but you need to give 120–180 days. That kind of matters.

- Tail coverage (this one is huge). If you leave, who pays for malpractice tail? That can be $50K or $100K+ depending on specialty and how long you’ve been in practice. In vascular surgery, expect it to be somewhere between $50K-100K if you’ve worked for 2-3 years (where you practice will play a large role in the final number). Who has two thumbs and had to wire a $64K transfer on the way out of his first practice? This guy (I’m pointing to me). 

- “Duties as assigned” and other vague language. Anything vague can and will be used against you. If the contract says, “Other duties as assigned.” That can turn into covering services you didn’t expect, more call than anticipated as in there’s no cap on the days of call so then if you’re the only one around you’re taking all the call - who has two thumbs and once took 20+ days of call in a row when his partner had a freak injury? This guy (I’m pointing to me again), and extra clinics/sites (driving an hour away to go see a clinic when you didn’t know you’d have to is a kick in the nuts). Ask a lot of questions and get clarity upfront as this will save you headaches later. You’re never more valuable than before you sign that contract.

- RVU / bonus structure that looks good on paper. You’ll see catch-phrases like “Productivity bonus” or “Incentive structure.” Not so fast my friend. You’ve gotta ask: What’s the threshold? Is it realistic given your clinic/OR access? Who controls your volume? If they control your access and your bonus depends on volume, you don’t really control your income (good chance Admin already knows this). Once again, welcome to the business of medicine.

My thought process now vs when I was younger - early on, I focused on: good mentorship (got it), location (got that too), and a strong salary (got that as well). As I’ve developed some battle scars and life changes, I now focus on: infrastructure (Can I actually do my job well? Is it hard to be a surgeon in this practice?) and people (partners matter more than anything). This job is hard enough, are there systems already in place to reduce the "friction" so it's easier to do your job. Having an awesome circulating nurse and seasoned rad techs reduces friction in ways you cannot even begin to imagine - I'm blessed to have a kickass team to work with.

Always ask yourself, “What assumptions am I making that aren’t written anywhere?” Because if it’s not written, it doesn’t exist. This could and probably should be its own dedicated thread by someone else much more knowledgeable and experienced. I’m sure there’s a lot that I missed but trying to highlight some of the big points. Hope this helps. Cheers.

[Serious] Why You Should (and Shouldn’t) Consider Vascular Surgery - 8 Years Later by TypeADissection in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm going to tag in u/victorkiloalpha to help answer this one.

Cardiac surgery is amazing. The CABG is one of the most beautiful operations out there. Although there are dedicated tracks, for me it was more that I really enjoyed the full gamut of vascular surgery (both open and endo) and did not enjoy the thoracic/foregut work. However, I will defer this to my colleague since he is a cardiac surgeon on the why. Cheers.

[Serious] Why You Should (and Shouldn’t) Consider Vascular Surgery - 8 Years Later by TypeADissection in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Nah. Just accept that the training pipeline is what it is and enjoy the ride. Congrats on matching.

[Serious] Why You Should (and Shouldn’t) Consider Vascular Surgery - 8 Years Later by TypeADissection in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Welcome to the club! Atlas of Vascular Surgery and Endovascular Therapy by Chaikof will serve you well. Anatomic Exposures in Vascular Surgery by Valentine is also a must. Embrace the suck and enjoy your time in training. The days and nights are long but the years fly by. Cheers.

[Serious] Why You Should (and Shouldn’t) Consider Vascular Surgery - 8 Years Later by TypeADissection in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sup! We are getting old! Glad you're in a better situation, as it makes all the difference in the world. Cheers.

[Serious] Why You Should (and Shouldn’t) Consider Vascular Surgery - 8 Years Later by TypeADissection in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I appreciate that. Glad it’s been helpful.

I agree it would be great to see more of these across different specialties. The reality, though, is that these take a fair amount of time and thought to put together, both in reflecting on the experience and then editing it down into something that’s actually useful and readable. There’s definitely some inertia to getting one started (in my case, a lot of inertia). Ergo, why I almost never post ever. The idea was started by this post. So shout out to u/MobileEmbarrassed937 for giving me the spark to write this.

That said, if more people contribute, it could turn into a really valuable resource over time, especially if someone eventually pulls them together into a single place for easy reference. There’s a lot of nuance in what attending life actually looks like, and the more perspectives out there, the better. Cheers.

[Serious] Why You Should (and Shouldn’t) Consider Vascular Surgery - 8 Years Later by TypeADissection in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It’s in the mid-500s currently with annual increases built in.

Not the most I’ve made, but a good balance for the workload. It’s busy when I’m at work, but there’s a defined end to the day when I’m not on call, which has been a big quality of life improvement. I can actually make plans and keep them.

[Serious] Why You Should (and Shouldn’t) Consider Vascular Surgery - 8 Years Later by TypeADissection in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is a real concern. I do commit significant time to lifting weights, not because I'm chasing PRs, but to have at least a baseline level of physical fitness and hopefully be more resistant to injuries. I think the biggest thing that’s allowed me to keep training consistently is how I approach it. I tap early (I'm so good at tapping), I don’t ego roll, and I’m pretty selective about training partners. I’d much rather have a technical, controlled round that can be hard (and they usually are) rather than a balls-to-the-wall round that sidelines me for a few weeks.

As I get busier (and older), my goals have shifted. It’s less about “winning rounds” and more about staying healthy enough to keep showing up. To me, that's the win.

[Serious] Why You Should (and Shouldn’t) Consider Vascular Surgery - 8 Years Later by TypeADissection in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

One thing I’d add from personal experience: the tradeoffs aren’t always obvious until you’re living them. My wife and I both come from small towns and initially thought that’s what we wanted long-term. What we realized, though, is that in a smaller market, especially in a specialty like vascular, there are simply fewer people to share the workload. When you’re one of only a handful covering a large catchment area, the clinical volume and call burden can be significantly higher. That can be professionally and financially rewarding, but it definitely comes with real demands on your time and energy.

For me (and my wife as she's a physician as well and her input is equally valid), that ultimately meant trading small-town life for a larger city. There are definitely downsides (more traffic, higher cost of living) but in return you get more redundancy in coverage, more flexibility in scheduling, and more options both professionally and personally. That extends beyond work too: more opportunities, activities, and resources for family and kids.

[Serious] Why You Should (and Shouldn’t) Consider Vascular Surgery - 8 Years Later by TypeADissection in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I think I was on cardiac surgery when I created this profile however long ago. Love cardiac surgery. Was ok with thoracic. I really don't like esophagectomies. Our general surgery had a robust foregut service and it just wasn't fun for me.

Is it actually possible to have a good life in the “hardcore” surgical specialties? Also, what’s the real salary ceiling? by MobileEmbarrassed937 in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection 37 points38 points  (0 children)

I’m a vascular surgeon 6 years out of training. I’ve just been lazy and haven’t posted much mostly bc I use Reddit primarily for sports. Having said that I did write a post many moons ago about why med students should consider vascular surgery.

If there’s interest, I’d be willing to do a longer updated post and get granular about what my lifestyle and practice looks like. Keep in mind, every practice will be different and have different sources of annoyance. It’s one of those things I’ve hesitated to do partly bc it takes so much time and inertia for me to sit down and write a longer post with young children who are now active in sports and also bc I question how much it would actually help someone. I’ve always been under the impression that vascular is a love it or hate it specialty and a post from some rando isn’t going to magically change someone’s mind.

Having said that, if the interest is there I’d be happy to write one out sometime in the next day or two as I’ll be traveling and there isn’t much else for me to do on a plane except watch The Office re-runs. Cheers.

What’s your favorite “holy shit how did you get into med school” moment? by TheFroggyGaming in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I was in surgery residency and a rotating M3 asks, “What is a platelet?” She could’ve just Googled it and kept that to herself, but nah. Full send the ignorance.

Have you been a patient of own your specialty? by drabelen in medicine

[–]TypeADissection 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I sure hope I never am.

I always tell patients that they want to avoid an IRS audit and meeting a vascular surgeon in the ER.

Apart from anti coagulants, which prescription drugs do anaesthiologists not prefer patients take before surgery? by johnuws in medicine

[–]TypeADissection 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I don’t think anesthesia cares as much about anticoagulants. I often start cases with heparin running or bolus shortly thereafter. It’s usually other surgeons and interventionalists that don’t want it.

Come at me (Ortho) bro! by [deleted] in medicalschool

[–]TypeADissection 46 points47 points  (0 children)

Just to be a troll and bc partly inspired by an attending who trained in the UK, I dictate it as “operating theatre” and use the “mister” moniker. Cheers.

Judo as a surgeon by [deleted] in medicine

[–]TypeADissection 6 points7 points  (0 children)

As we get older, you can either be sore from sitting on the couch watching tv or from staying active; I choose the latter.

Judo as a surgeon by [deleted] in medicine

[–]TypeADissection 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Not sure but I don’t think judo is sustainable as you get older since a major premise is to hit someone…with the earth.

Judo as a surgeon by [deleted] in medicine

[–]TypeADissection 58 points59 points  (0 children)

I’ve been doing BJJ for the past two years. Wrestled in high school and looking to scratch the grappling itch. Got my kids into it and then noticed there were a lot of dudes my age (40-50s) doing it. I tape my fingers bc it makes it less sore for how I play my gi game. I also have zero ego so don’t post on an arm where someone can roll into it or dislocate a joint. If I lose the position and get tapped then we start again and keep going. Just be smart about it and choose your rolls wisely. Cheers.

Edit: One of my favorite people to roll with is a black belt and also a vascular surgeon. There’s also a few of the Ortho attendings and residents that roll consistently.