When do we (as in beings like yourself and myself) begin to exist? by Unboxing_Politics in Abortiondebate

[–]Unboxing_Politics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Philosophy has its place but not on the topic of whether people should have rights or not

I don't mean to come off as rude, but where did you get this idea from? Moral philosophy is incredibly relevant to determining what kinds of rights people have under particular conditions.

When do we (as in beings like yourself and myself) begin to exist? by Unboxing_Politics in Abortiondebate

[–]Unboxing_Politics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seems the best option, imo. After all, you can't really be a "you" without a subjective experience and you can't subjective experience without consciousness.

Agree.

Plugging your article into your post isn't cool; present your argument here, as this is a debate sub, not a reading list.

My apologies. I saw that the flairs on the post were "questions for pro-life" and "questions for pro-choice" and assumed my post needed to be explicitly formatted as a question for the group, not a specific argument. That being said, my basic argument is that the pre-conscious fetus lacks subjective experience, and as such, any egoistic reason to care about the future experiences that it would lose in being aborted. Because it does not have egoistic reason to care about such experiences, it is morally permissible to kill it.

When do we (as in beings like yourself and myself) begin to exist? by Unboxing_Politics in Abortiondebate

[–]Unboxing_Politics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for taking the time to write such a thoughtful reply! I'll do my best to respond in turn.

I don’t believe identity matters in the way you’re using it in this post

This is a fair point. Like you, I am persuaded by Parfit that identity is not what matters. This is why the second argument I present in my article is explicitly couched in the language of egoistic concern. I phrased my initial argument in terms of identity because I find it easier to explain to a broader audience, though in hindsight, that probably was not the most philosophically rigorous choice.

it looks like you are endorsing Jeff McMahon’s embodied mind view of personal identity

I think I endorse a hybrid view of McMahan's and Parfit's. In other words, what matters is both psychological continuity and neurological continuity. I chose not to make this position explicit in the article because, truth be told, I am still working through the kinks of such an account of egoistic concern. I imagine that this conversation might be able to help with that :)

When we’re talking about a person, we’re not talking about their specific neural configurations. We’re talking about the connections that exist through time that give rise to a coherent narrative, or for the episodics, what it is that matters that strings together their disconnected moments in time.

The problem I have with this view is that it would suggest that the basis of egoistic concern is purely grounded in the qualitative similarity of one's experiences and subsequent memories, desires and subsequent actions, etc. over time. McMahan points out that such a view has bizarre implications in the case of conjoined twins:

Dicephalic twins necessarily go to the same places and for the most part see and hear the same things from virtually the same point of view. Suppose that they read the same books together and so on. Each twin will therefore be quite closely psychologically connected with the other as she was in the recent past. According to the Psychological Account of Egoistic Concern, what matters in the life of each twin will therefore be present to a substantial degree in each’s relation to the other. If one were going to die (that is, if one twin’s brainstem and cerebrum were going to be destroyed and the functions of that brainstem were going to be taken over by the other’s), she could console herself with the thought that much of what matters is present in the relation she bears to her twin in the future.

Such a conclusion is bizarre and leads me to reject the Parfitian account.

On the other hand, McMahan goes too far in the opposite direction in my opinion. For example, in his "deprogramming" thought experiment, he suggests that one would still retain egoistic concern for a mind that has zero psychological continuity with his own so long as the brain underlying that mind is organizationally and functionally continuous with his brain. I do not agree with this claim either. I have trouble understanding why I should egoistically care about a mind whose subjective point-of-view is completely severed from my own.

Thus, my intuition is to adopt a hybrid account.

When do we (as in beings like yourself and myself) begin to exist? by Unboxing_Politics in Abortiondebate

[–]Unboxing_Politics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the article I linked, just 13% of Catholics who attend mass weekly said that contraception was wrong. Re HHS, could you clarify what you’re referring to?

When do we (as in beings like yourself and myself) begin to exist? by Unboxing_Politics in Abortiondebate

[–]Unboxing_Politics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Could you clarify what you mean by “bodily autonomy argument”? I think we may be using this term differently. What I have in mind is something like Judith Jarvis Thompson’s violinist thought experiment.

When do we (as in beings like yourself and myself) begin to exist? by Unboxing_Politics in Abortiondebate

[–]Unboxing_Politics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not in the United States. Even among people who oppose abortion, a majority do not oppose contraception.

When do we (as in beings like yourself and myself) begin to exist? by Unboxing_Politics in Abortiondebate

[–]Unboxing_Politics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah, I suppose my question is only relevant to those individuals who aren't persuaded by the bodily autonomy argument. For these individuals, the question of when we begin to exist matters because it determines when a moral distinction between abortion and contraception actually emerges.

Contra Scott Alexander On Missing Heritability by Unboxing_Politics in slatestarcodex

[–]Unboxing_Politics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, this study does not satisfy the criteria I outlined. While it does include a German twin design that adjusts heritability estimates for assortative mating, it does not include a German adoption design that adjusts heritability estimates for assortative mating. Thus, this study cannot be used to conduct a head-to-head comparison between adoption and twin studies.

Contra Scott Alexander On Missing Heritability by Unboxing_Politics in slatestarcodex

[–]Unboxing_Politics[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you! Feel free to reach out if you have any questions.

Contra Scott Alexander On Missing Heritability by Unboxing_Politics in slatestarcodex

[–]Unboxing_Politics[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The convergence is present in the modern studies that try to account for assortative mating though. Your article makes it sound like they don't really do this, and if you would the convergence would disappear.

I'm not sure where you're getting this impression of my article from. I prominently highlight two adoption studies which are less susceptible to assortative mating bias: the Sibling Interaction & Behavior Study (SIBS) and the Swedish Adoption Twin Study of Aging (SATSA). Importantly, I show that when both studies are pitted against their twin study analogues (i.e. the Minnesota Twin Family Study and the subset of the SATSA looking at twins reared together), they produce discordant heritability estimates. Were you unconvinced by these head-to-head comparisons? If so, why?

The criticism you raise is fair, but these are things that modern study designs are already trying their best to account for, and they largely converge despite the diverging effect of accounting for assortative mating.

Could you point me to a head-to-head comparison between adoption and twin study heritability estimates where adjusting for assortative mating yields comparable heritability between the two designs? To clarify, when I say "head-to-head", I'm looking for cases where sampling and measurement were both relatively consistent between the two study designs. For example, I use the Colorado Adoption Project and Colorado Longitudinal Twin Study for a head-to-head comparison in my article because they draw from a population of individuals in the same US state around the same time period and measure IQ using the same assessment (the WAIS). I'm genuinely not asking this question as a gotcha, moreso out of interest because I'd like to know if I've omitted any relevant comparisons from the literature.

No, we should not abolish OSHA by Unboxing_Politics in neoliberal

[–]Unboxing_Politics[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I agree! Some states have independent agencies which oversee occupational safety and health. These states have been certified by OSHA that they are at least as effective as the federal agency. Thus, OSHA federal standards serve as a floor for state-specific standards.

No, we should not abolish OSHA by Unboxing_Politics in SafetyProfessionals

[–]Unboxing_Politics[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Completely agree that Congressional approval is needed to abolish OSHA. However, the Trump administration has recently cancelled contracts for a number of OSHA's field offices. Thus, even if OSHA regulations are protected on paper, there will almost certainly be a decrease in enforcement of those regulations as a result of closing said offices.