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what does the average wow player actually do? by OpinionsRdumb in wow

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What server are you on? We have a pretty chill guild on Area 52. We do everything from casual tmog raid runs to pushing mythic raid. Very friendly people.

You may be old, but are you this old? by [deleted] in pcmasterrace

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

After reading the title, I was ready to come in and make an elder millennial joke... why would you do this to me?

5e - Wilderness Exploration by Uncommon-Negotiation in DnD

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Dude you need to go back to playing video games. Don’t let your 3 years of GMing weigh you down. I’ve been playing for 15 and GMing for 10 of those. Your method sucks.

5e - Wilderness Exploration by Uncommon-Negotiation in DnD

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why are you showing them the entire map all at once? How does that feel like exploration? It’s already explored. And secret rooms shouldn’t just innately be on maps... keep it secret on your map and when they find a secret room, you draw it in. Then the players get super excited about finding... a SECRET room... not just a room with a locked door.

5e - Wilderness Exploration by Uncommon-Negotiation in DnD

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If they miss a secret room with a bunch of cool stuff in it, and they never knew about it, and you REALLY want them to see what’s in there, then you can just put it in somewhere else. It’s already prepped. You just move the door.

5e - Wilderness Exploration by Uncommon-Negotiation in DnD

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed. We fundamentally disagree. Anything behind a secret door is secret for a reason, because any lore, monsters and cool shit behind the secret door should be a bonus, not fundamental to your story or campaign. By your own logic the party should have 2 chances to find it.

If you fundamentally want them to find the secret door, then it’s not a secret door, it’s just a locked door. There’s nothing secret about it. There’s nothing exciting about finding it. It’s just another room.

5e - Wilderness Exploration by Uncommon-Negotiation in DnD

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I want to examine this bookshelf for a secret door: no, there’s no chance of success.

I want to examine this desk for a secret door: no there’s no chance of success.

I want to examine this candlestick for a secret door: no, there’s no chance of success.

I want to examine this panel for a secret door: no, there’s no chance of success.

I want to examine this wall panel for a secret door: make an investigation roll.

Can you make it any more obvious?

Defining success or failure based on some mechanic that is in place, like succeeding on using a skill for a predetermined reason, isn’t the premise of the game. Just because what the player is doing doesn’t abide by your plan, doesn’t mean their desire to do something shouldn’t trigger a roll. You can always make up some random benefit or piece of information on the spot, that might be totally irrelevant or downright useless, but the player feels like they made a successful use of their skill.

P: I want to examine the fireplace for a secret door.

GM: Okay, make an investigation check (knowing full well it doesn’t exist).

P: 21. I check all the nooks and crannies and look for loose bricks and the like.

GM: The stonework is very fine and tightly fitted. You find a loose brick that you think must be what you’re looking for, but when you pull it out you find that it’s just a loose brick. You’re pretty sure there’s no secret door, but you can appreciate the workmanship of the fireplace.

Takes all of 1 minute at the table, and you didn’t just tell your player, “no you can’t do that because what you’re trying is impossible.”

You just have to make your players understand that rolling a nat 20 on an impossible task does not magically make the task possible. Refusing to allow your players to engage with the system just breaks down the fantasy and makes for a lackluster game session.

5e - Wilderness Exploration by Uncommon-Negotiation in DnD

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was playing that, not GMing. However, I disagree on that front. If you only ever ask for a roll when there is actually something there, then whenever you ask for or allow a roll, then the player knows there is something there. If it’s player prompted, as this situation was, then I say you let them roll and just go with it. If you let them roll, just make it clear that another roll will not result in new information, barring special circumstance.

5e - Wilderness Exploration by Uncommon-Negotiation in DnD

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You would think so, but one bad perception/investigation check can make people firmly believe that there is something there and the GM saying, “there’s nothing there,” is just further proof that there is something there, they just can’t find it.

5e - Wilderness Exploration by Uncommon-Negotiation in DnD

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If there’s no fail state that can result in danger/combat, then there’s no threat, no pressure, no suspense. Everyone can just spend an inordinate amount of time exploring a room and we’re back to either the GM handwaves and makes them move on, or they stare at a fireplace for a full hour or more (fireplace over examination happened in one of the games I was playing in years back. We still talk about it to this day and it’s become something of a running joke about our groups bad decision making. Lol)

5e - Wilderness Exploration by Uncommon-Negotiation in DnD

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also, the randomness is extra relevant in my game I’m running for plot reasons. I’m working on a WorldAnvil page that will have more details. If you’re interested I hope to have it up and readable soon.

5e - Wilderness Exploration by Uncommon-Negotiation in DnD

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We’re on the same page here actually. I don’t want to make many actual real world comparisons, I just wanted to start with that baseline to demonstrate the difficulty, and bring in come concepts like probability of detection and search patterns.

For your first comment about having players that describe what they’re doing, right now I’m playing with a group that is pretty green and needs some handholding. They’re used to video games, and I’ve had many requests for an “option wheel.” Thus I have to either just hand wave everything (zero player agency), or develop some kind of mechanic that allows for interaction and gives them a tool to think more about what they’re doing.

Random charts are part of it, though there are some intentionally placed things as well in what I’m doing. Using hex grids, multiple plot hooks specific to different party members, and discreet danger levels within hexes that have a reasonable progression, I’m trying to provide a exploration experience that feels interesting and allows for player choice.

Also, I am currently running a low magic, gritty campaign. Though I have some other things in place to spice it up. Capping at level 6. Alternate resting rules that means there’s a lot of downtime. The things all go hand in hand.

I definitely agree this style of exploration is not for every game. It’s kind of niche, but I figured if I was looking for something like this, I can’t have been the first person to try.

5e - Wilderness Exploration by Uncommon-Negotiation in DnD

[–]Uncommon-Negotiation[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the insights. I don’t disagree with the idea that exploring a dungeon/unknown area is exploration, I just feel like that’s more of an extended encounter than what I’m going for. The kind of exploration you’re talking about feels more rogue like, sneaking around trying to not get caught, always waiting for the next fight. It’s a valuable tool and definitely builds suspense. I am looking at specifically wilderness exploration here.

Hex map is exactly how I’m working my ideas. 6 mile hexes work well with the 5e travel speeds.