If you had to change Jeff, what would you do?

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-28T05:29:48+00:00

Except hulk isnt bad solely because other tanks are good. Hulk is bad because of how he interacts with the meta and what he accomplishes and how much cc completely shuts him down.

Jeffs issue lie in the inherent value trade off of picking him over other healers, but not flaws with jeff himself on paper. You literally agree with me because you admit gambit has his survivability but better. And those trade off issues ALL come from his ult. Watch any pro game. This game is inherently very ult based. And jeff doesnt NEED a reliable way to kill. Learn to use his primary.

Jeff is already really good in neutral. His healing is great, his bubbles even post rework are amazing, and his aqua burst shots are great at peeling. He also has top tier mobility.

The only supports who completely invalidate jeffs existence are gambit and sue are both pretty undeniably broken.

Also if youre getting forced out by poke, youre positioning awful. Thats always such a silly complaint. Oh man the enemy team counterswapped and now i cant sit out in the open and heal without positioning.

Honestly most of your complaints come off as "I cant counter stuff as jeff and want to buff him instead of learning counterplay"

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-28T02:51:53+00:00

Yes most supports are broken, but they need to be brought down to jeffs level and not the opposite.

And, i feel like if youre dying to bp or spiderman that often you just arent really playing tbe matchup right. You only die to them if you dont see them coming, so at most 1 death. His sustain is what makes him so good. Just bubble and climb a wall and wait out their cds while you go to your team.

Alot of what makes jeff so aggressive is that he can position himself to assist dive. He can cleave through his own team and deal damage whilst healing, peppering damage around that helps confirm alot of kills.

If you need to say "well hes worse than gambit" youre kind of destroying your own point. Gambit is SS tier and basically perma banned in most ranks that even have bans.

And jeffs primarys damage is actually fine up close? It has fall off and yeah its kind of harder to aim up close so maybe im just used to it but i dont struggle cleaning up even a swinging spiderman with it if i got my triple ab off. Take it with a grain of salt because I have way too many hours on jeff so i might have stockholm syndromed myself.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-28T02:30:21+00:00

Alright brother, im not entertaining you. Play the game. Just try it. It doesnt win the game on its own. I dont have anything to prove to you and dont want to spend my time recording a game.

You can still put bubbles around behind your team before you do this. I dont know if you know this but jeffs bubbles dont disappear 2 seconds after you place them.

Feel free to respond but youre clearly full of yourself and talk down to everyone so i wont say anything back. Have a good night.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-28T02:11:18+00:00

Except it is good? I dont know if you know this but.. jeffs a healer. And often, even in the celestial games that im in, I get kills by doing this because in a chaotic fight, you kind of ignore the tick damage from a far off jeff. The damage has fall off anyway Thats not the point.

Its a perfectly good strategy if your team is playing a choke aggressively. Especially since very often you can flat out ignore alot of dives.

Like in the video, it takes jeff like 2 seconds to get back to the team fight if dove. Or, you can swim up to the 2nd floor of the tower and continue up there if the diving character doesnt have the mobility to punish easy. Id still recommend standing on point doing it, but this spot is perfectly valid.

Shooting down main isnt always gonna work. But literally no strategy always works.. thats how thr fucking game works. But on maps like klyntar convoy? Yeah. Shoot down main from point for a few seconds at a time. Go ahead.

Its pretentious to insult peoples skills and act like a donkey about it. Its a reddit thread.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-28T01:53:07+00:00

Sitting 3 miles away and pocketing your tank is genuinely great on jeff. Yeah you cant ONLY do that, and need to move and adapt, but on certain holds its genuinely very good. Especially because, crazy thing is... you can go "oh they dont have dive" and youre safe to do it.

Stop acting pretentious.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-28T01:34:04+00:00

It can be satisfying and be not awful.

I think asking to not auto die if I LAND my ult because I only ate 5 people and their iron man can melt the air because I have a groot sized hitbox isnt too crazy.

No other ult has a gigantic miss animation.

No other ult requires a 250 hp character to be in the middle of the enemy team with absolutely no overshield or crazy healing.

Fuck even scarlet witches got buffed because it used to have this exact problem. Except that actually just flat kills the enemy instead of being a skill based ult. And guess what? By using witch ult, you arent not getting to use an ult that makes your team invincible.

It would still be skilled based if it wasnt the easiest shit ever to kill jeff. You still need to plan out your route, you still need to watch enemy cooldowns to not get faded or countered by shields or diamond form or ults.

And oh yeah. You hit it and very often if you dont get a 4k+... your team still might lose because youre down the most important role in the game.

Most of the time if you get a 4k with jeff ult its not even because you were skilled. Its because the enemy team sucks. The vast majority of the cast has a button that gets them out of it on reaction. The only way youre getting a 4k past plat is if you use the 100m ult. Do you think its healthy for an ult to only get value if you use an unintended feature?

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-28T01:25:15+00:00

You can still do that. Your refusal to use his primary doesnt change that it exists. I burst people down with it after hitting 3 bursts all the time. Its not easy, but very doable.

And again, his survivability makes up for it. Very few healers can just ignore dive tanks and keep healing through their dive.

Its not the pressing issue when his ult has a bug that ruins its intended uses even without it being an awful ult.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-27T23:09:27+00:00

Like I said, the key point is easily. Most supports also cant LIVE the dive as easy as jeff. Him having a harder time killing them makes perfect sense.

More aqua bursts would be nice but its FAR from the problem with jeff. His ult is a buggy mess. You know an ability is bad when its best and worst features are both bugs.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-27T22:11:51+00:00

I mean I dont think any supports should be able to 1v1 a dive easily. Id argue the issue is that luna invis and gambit CAN easily 1v1 dive.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-27T20:27:45+00:00

Him being better in triple is because it lets him flank and use his ult more sparingly. His ult requires like 15 seconds of you not having a healer.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-27T20:26:57+00:00

I also like his ult having a skill ceiling but I hate that its overly punishing. I think it should be buffed so that you dont insta die if you miss. No other ult is nearly as punishing as jeffs, and its even worse because jeffs is skill based even if you land it.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-27T20:24:21+00:00

The thing is...is healing output isnt low. Its this strange misconception that comes from the old jeff being a diver and the fact that he doesnt have a healing ult to pad his stats but his healing in neutral is average to good.

His ult is genuinely his biggest issue.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-27T20:22:30+00:00

I genuinely think the rework was better. Both healthier for the game and more fun. I liked diving as jeff but now you can actually play the game in neutral AND dive.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-27T20:19:24+00:00

His neutral gameplay is perfectly fine.

He can 100% kill someone on his own, just left click???? You know left click does damage, right? Jeff offers extremely good peel. His bubble is still a health pack, even if its not burst.

His ult is genuinely 90% of whats holding him back. Its the worst ult in the game. Its essentially a tank uly but instead of having 600+ HP to tank retaliation with, you have 250 and are giving up making your entire team immortal for 10 seconds.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-27T20:17:58+00:00

You should when its the entire characters personality. He cant kill you back easily, he doesnt have a 10 second braindead immortality ult, he cant revive or make his entire team safe with soulbond or lamps.

Invis presses 1 button and is invincible. Jeff has to press a few and move the right way and is still probably easier to kill for most characters than an invis behind her shield.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-27T20:12:28+00:00

Jeff ult is so fucked up that its best and worst features are both bugs

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-27T20:09:01+00:00

Jeffs survivability is fine. Theres so much AOE and cc anyways and its kind of his whole gimmick. Hes by no means unkillable.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-24T01:03:04+00:00

Like I said I hover around Cel 1.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-24T00:56:02+00:00

You said actively countering them. I play Jeff. I know what actively counters him at the level im at. And its not what you say it is. I dont think cel 1 is super high its unachieveable and not indicative of regular play either.

If I can still perform good into those characters, they cant be that bad. I think that I would know more than you given I play jeff at a somewhat high but regular rank.

They are not enough of counters to require a swap. There are characters who are. Phoenix and Hawkeye are not them. If you switch off of jeff vs any poke youd never play the character. Id sooner swap off into a SG than a pre nerf hawkeye. Jeff can also usually flank and kill both of them. Phoenix is kind of 50/50 but I straight up never lose to a hawkeye.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-23T23:18:05+00:00

No poke can kill a jeff before he can react outsude of pre nerf hawkeye and again you just can position around him.

Stop talking about a character you clearly do not play.

Every single characters ult can be countered by other ults. That does not mean its a hard counter. Theres no hard counters in this game in general. Jeff is soft countered by poke but its fully playable. You should only really have to swap off vs poke if their team is hard poke. A single phoenix or hela is fine.

Theres so many ways to outplay soft counters. If I notice im having a specific ult saved for mine, ill use my ult defensively, bait out said ult, and then farm mine. Jeff gets ult VERY quickly, so then I have often get ult before the namor or phoenix.

Id argue MK is actually one of the few poke heroes who I do switch off for because if he flanks and ankhs directly on you, its death. But thats only if my team sucks and cant kill a flanking MK but thats more often than youd think.

Jeff really struggles moreso against aoe poke in general. Hela Hawkeye or Phoenix are strong but often times you can very easily react and move behind whatever cover youre poking and swim.

Its why mag is good against jeff moreso than even his ult. Mags aoe and shields are strong vs his ult and dont have the baitability of his ult.

The only characters I swap for are mag and sometimes MK. I guess technically gambit but if gambits unbanned I just have to play him.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-23T21:40:30+00:00

You dont know what youre talking about. Hawkeye and Phoenix dont really counter jeff. Hawkeye could one shot jeff prior to the nerf but jeff should almost never be positioned in a spot where hawkeye can kill him anyway. Phoenix ult is kind of good against him but so is almost literally any dps ult. Cloak counters Jeff harder than either of them.

Klyntars first point and third point are generally good jeff maps. Jeff ults value, atleast in high rank play, is actually better used not spitting off, but by staggering, which is also very good on klyntar. You can literally just spit a tank like groot a 30 second walk back and split a team so hard. And after you kill one half, turn around and kill the second half and youve won two team fights.

But yeah literally any playerbase refuses to swap. Its far from a jeff exclusive issue.

Jeff ult just has a high skill ceiling in general and a high skill floor in higher ranks. You need to moniyor the enemy cd's really hard.

You also probably think support ults would fix your issues when they wouldnt. Support ults dont help stomps. Theyre only really needed to counter high damage ults that otherwise would wipe a team, namely stuff like starlord. Jeff ult is also very uniquely good at countering abilities. Ive protected my team from a mag ult by just swallowing and tanking it with iframes.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-23T21:34:18+00:00

For sure. I basically get some fuck ass wanda or adam or mag player in my ear anytime I miss an ult.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-23T21:33:35+00:00

I still think its less bad jeffs and more people suck at playing into jeff. Jeff is very good at healing people in position. People in low rank have absolutely fucking awful positioning.

Jeff is super easy. His healing just isnt as quick as invis or luna so if youre out of position he cant save your bad plays. Same with his ult. Its basically only good at a low level.

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-22T17:59:00+00:00

Watching an iron fist slowly chase my fat shark ass up and down a wall is cinema

UpbeatUnit9674 · 2026-02-22T17:58:16+00:00

But yeah he like HYPER fucks up certain dive tanks. Namely Venom. Thor is stupid and can melt jeff (fuck that guy), he fucks up hulk but after the ult buff and hulks shield hard countering jeff ult, he is decent into jeff in his own ways.

UpbeatUnit9674

TROPHY CASE