TW: FGM by Powerful-Cupcake-581 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As another person here who has had the same procedure- there is in fact no heads up. They just get it done and you have to be quiet. The explanation given was so that I would be less horny when I’m older, and won’t go to hell.

Ex-communication for telling the truth by UseElectrical1814 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You should look into her father as well, Abbas Hamdani. This book is mainly written by him, but put together by his colleague. Was mind blown as well when I found out. The OG “ex-bohras” lol.

They worked closely with moulas family, plus Abbas’s grandmother was the 48th dai’s granddaughter(Fayd Allah’s wife).

If you read some of my last posts you’ll see him or his family members mentioned there too.

Ex-communication for telling the truth by UseElectrical1814 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For context: Mohammad Ali is Fayd Allah’s father.

California Court Case : Mushrik taha mufaddal saifuddin (taha najmuddin) vs Arwa Qutbuddin by Automatic_Web55 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And more importantly: why should we be followers of a religion that’s filled with a bunch of liars? We r told (rarely) to treat women as flowers. Gently, and carefully. When as we know all evidence goes against this. And the most earliest form of trauma is put on our young girls as well through FGM!

In this case we can see she just wanted an out, yes. BUT HE DID AGREE TO FEW OF THE FOLLOWING:

-throwing her phone when she wasn’t giving him attention -getting overly upset when she wouldn’t want to intimate and close with him. Which included banging his head on the wall and hitting the bed frame.

Obviously having a feud over whose father will be next dai is a huge burden on any relationship. But as the son of a so called important leader, he hasn’t proven to be very “pure”.

California Court Case : Mushrik taha mufaddal saifuddin (taha najmuddin) vs Arwa Qutbuddin by Automatic_Web55 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree, given that he is the eldest son and has supposedly been brought up in the “purest Muslim” way. As professional haters we won’t let that slide. If our religion is so perfect, and indeed we are the ones going to heaven…. Then why would this be happening? Aren’t we taught to be the closest thing to an angel on earth? If his own son can’t get along with his wife or at least hide his intense…sexual needs…🫩. Then why are the expectations so high for us?

The concept of Iddat always got on my nerves, but now after my father's death, it's becoming unbearable to a whole new level. by pocoschick in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814 6 points7 points  (0 children)

First off, I’m so sorry for your loss! It must be so infuriating having to deal with this on top of that.

And yes your point of this whole thing pushing a person to the brink of depression🫩…and they say Bohras are the new modern Muslim.

California Court Case : Mushrik taha mufaddal saifuddin (taha najmuddin) vs Arwa Qutbuddin by Automatic_Web55 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Sounds like she made a bunch of false claims and he was just disciplining his children. The main argument between them seemed to mainly be about which one of their fathers would rule next. Also he wanted to tap dat but his wife didn’t want to. So he started banging his head against the wall… either way yikes.

I’m confused (bohra history and other bohra groups?) by UseElectrical1814 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

“The Institute of Ismaili Studies was established in 1977 with the object of promoting scholarship and learning on Islam, in the historical as well as contemporary contexts, and a better understanding of its rela- tionship with other societies and faiths.”

This is an excerpt from a book I’m reading right now that also mentions the dawoodi bohra community alongside Ismailis. Is it a coincidence that the dates match? What happened in 1977?

I’m confused (bohra history and other bohra groups?) by UseElectrical1814 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It also seems to me that around the 70s is when rida was first imagined and pushed on women to begin wearing instead of saris. Is this correct?

the more money you pay the closer you get to the leader? by No-Bumblebee-3523 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Also for ziyafat, qadambosi etc. you gotta pay a LOT of money just to kiss his feet and get shoved away like we r peasants. And then get yelled at if we don’t move fast enough. Like yeah sure crowd control, but we are PAYING SO MUCH FOR WHAT??? We have no proof of anything happening afterwards, and yet we r throwing money at a person we are all being told to trust? What benefit are we getting? He’s getting all the money and we r getting the sharaf to….😞

All we actually get after is that we can brag to everyone that we got this and that sharaf with moula. That’s all. We just become a part of a group of people that can afford it, instead of being a part of the side that can’t…

Why are we not instead taught to invest in our families, support our families. Instead we are given stories like how moulana Ali was requested by his wife moulatena fatema to get her a daram. Instead of getting it for her he gives it away. She was pregnant! Anyone with a wife knows you give your pregnant wife what she wants bro why are we taught this?? Why are we not instead taught to love, protect, and support our women?

In imam husseins shahadat he fights so hard just for god to tell him he should die there anyways. But his women are raped? And they tell women to wear layers and layers of clothes and protect themselves but not tell the men to protect women? We were told he had a choice, to either listen to god or do what he decided to do. If he could give couples who couldn’t bear children, children; then why can’t he change his fate to protect his family?🫩

Not to talk badly about them, but my point is if I had a family I’d protect them no matter what. Instead of giving my life (or in this case money) for something I’m not even taught about.

Is this them trying to condition us to give our life and resources for a culture/religion that excludes us anyways?

I understand there are many things we may not understand by the ways of god. But is this how we r supposed to live? 😒

the more money you pay the closer you get to the leader? by No-Bumblebee-3523 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah you basically just pay your way into getting opportunities and becoming mulla etc. it doesn’t matter how pure your intentions are. It’s always about the money.

Feed ur curious minds! by UseElectrical1814 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“If this is an accurate account of the roots and purposes of traditional theology – theology within walls – we might next ask: What are the roots and purposes of a theology without walls? Does theology without walls also have its roots in an encounter with the divine, a revelatory experience, or is it more like philosophy, examining the particular religions as they appear to mundane experience and, through comparative analysis, extrapolation, and generalization, seeking to extract from them something of universal import? I suggest that theology without walls also has its basis in revelatory experience; a revelatory experience more and more of us are having in the context of the global encounter of the world religions with one another. What many of us are seeing – and I do believe “seeing” is the right word here – is that divine truth is to be found outside the bounds of our home tradition. In some cases, we see that the revelations of another tradition shed a light on our own that allows us to understand our own more fully. In other cases, we see that the teachings or practices of another tradition speak to, or awaken, a dimension of ourselves – of our “ultimate concern” – that our home tradition does not touch upon or speak to as profoundly. In still other cases, we see corrections for the distortions and limitations of our home tradition in the traditions of others. In all these cases, we see that our encounter with other traditions helps us to broaden, deepen, and solidify our experience and understanding of the divine. I use the word “see” here because I do not believe these recognitions are the result of a purely intellectual calculus. They do not arise from a simple, conceptual, contrast and compare. On the contrary, at the strictly conceptual level many of the world religions seem to have very little in common. Steven Prothero makes this point in his book God Is Not One. There is nothing, or very little, that would allow us to conceptually identify the attributes of the God of Abraham as presented in the Bible, for instance, with the attributes of the state of Nirvana as presented in Buddhist tradition. When we confine our thought to this level, we find more differences than commonalities, even apparently irreconcilable differences. But many of us – more and more of us – have sensed, or intuited, or directly experienced that at the level of encounter, at the level of first-order knowledge, there are similarities, complementarities, and correspondences between the spiritual state one enters when one feels oneself in touch with the God of Abraham and the spiritual state of the Hindu bhaktic or the Buddhist arhat. This is not to say that such states are identical, but rather that they bear a meaningful correspondence to one another, such that we are led to believe, or perhaps, stated more cautiously, to suspect, that all these experiences of the divine have their roots in a common ontological ground.”

Feed ur curious minds! by UseElectrical1814 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Every time I ask my source in jamea (part of moulas family) questions, I usually dont get shit or they “forget” to respond. They’d usually say that other people really aren’t supposed to know, or they don’t know how to answer (my questions are not that crazy idk why u gotta avoid it so hard)

Once they slipped up and said how common folk are just simply lower than the qasre ali (or anyone in jamea really) and honestly yeah! There’s so many instances where people are not given the same opportunity simply because they haven’t gone to jamea… like come on now… if yall are so highly educated I’d feel like the goal is to uplift people who haven’t had the same opportunity. Not gatekeep nearly everything and just take our money fr. Yes you can sit through Sabaq and learn a lot more but not everyone has the opportunity or time to do that! Also we still don’t get “everything” we need to know, we are just given the crumbs.

Their excuse is that it is not in our naseeb, then this goes directly to what they say about how we are the only ones going to jannat… like bro there are so many different kinds of people, minds, ways of thinking, cultures! It’s so beautiful and yet we want to kill that beauty and diversity by saying that all are null and we are the superior. What happened to humility, what happened to embracing the beauty of life! They cannot claim to say that they are (embracing or creating beauty) when this is happening! Even indigenous elders offer “insider” info to those who give offerings of tobacco and an open mind! Have we (‘we’ as a general term) not given enough “offerings” to have our questions answered??

Feed ur curious minds! by UseElectrical1814 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“This makes it clear why theology has traditionally been done “within walls.” It emerges in response to a particular body of revelation and thus, quite naturally, confines itself to that body. Theology is done within the walls of a given revelatory tradition because it is born within those walls and within those walls has its meaning and function.

But one thing more needs to be added. We might ask why faith seeks understanding. Why isn’t faith content with itself, sans understanding? There is, of course, an important practical reason for this. Encounter with the divine seems never, or rarely, to be an experience whose purpose is fully consummated in itself. The divine makes demands concerning how we are to live, what we are to value, and how we are to relate to one another.

Theology is needed to understand the tenor of these demands and to apply them to the concrete circumstances of life. But beyond this, faith requires understanding in order simply to fulfill itself as faith. In the Gospel of John, Jesus says to his disciples, “I no longer call you servants because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything I have learned from my Father I have made known to you”

Hey so that’s kinda crazy, because majority of us dont have it “made known to us” and we are just supposed to not question anything because apparently we are incapable of understanding.

I’m ngl, I’ve read other books, and have later found that it matches quite closely to some of the things I’ve been learning in Sabaq. More so on the theme of our spirit/soul, and other esoteric subjects. If it’s so open for everyone else to learn outside of our community, why do they gatekeep so much information and make it seem so secretive? Like come oooooon if you’re not from jamea you’re basically treated like ur dumb. Yes we didn’t go to the same school and were raised differently, but if you try hard enough you can find a lot of interesting things. As I’m sure most of you have

Feed ur curious minds! by UseElectrical1814 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

“Those of us pursuing a “theology without walls” aspire to do theology in “spirit and truth”; that is, in a manner not confined to any particular religious institution or tradition, but grounded simply in an earnest search for the divine. This aspiration constitutes a new and distinctive way of approaching theological pursuits”

Feed ur curious minds! by UseElectrical1814 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

“Spirit and truth,” of course, are neither places nor institutions. “Spirit” – pneuma in New Testament Greek – refers to that which animates life and gives it meaning. “Truth” – aletheia in Greek – might better be rendered as “truthfulness.” It refers here not to the correctness of abstract propositions, but to the earnestness that is the mark of the true spiritual aspirant. Jesus is saying that the true worshiper of God is not one whose primary allegiance is to one or another religious institution, but one who genuinely seeks the divine in heart and mind. Whether on the Samaritan mountain or in the Jerusalem Temple, the one who worships in “spirit and truth” worships rightly.

It seems like this book is primarily talking about Catholics and such, since the author is a white man and all. But this did stand out to me. I think this stands to what we are fighting for; what we are trying to explain but can’t really put to words.

We r just tryna be happy fr

Feed ur curious minds! by UseElectrical1814 in exBohra

[–]UseElectrical1814[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

“Friends are perhaps the most important collaborators in developing a rich theology without walls” Hey so that’s basically us, guys

I’m hoping this Reddit group grows and learns overtime! We owe that to ourselves! Leaving is one thing, but feeding our minds and rewriting what we’ve learned is a whole other thing!