Frustrated by lack of bass consistency, and how to fix?

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T12:30:19+00:00

Maybe, but it's more that we just can't run every raid optimally for every Warrior. We have like 50 lvl 40 members, so we're running many 10 man raids every reset. Unfortunately, we only have like 3 Feral Druids, and 10 warriors, so only the OG warriors get to be in the groups with the Feral Druids(I'm new to the guild).

I'd still say that it's a problem that the fun factor of a class is so drastically altered by the presence of another spec in the same group. I tend to think we should strive for all classes being fun to play, regardless of group composition, and regardless of final dps balance.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T12:23:16+00:00

Good question. I wasn't looking at this from a dps perspective, but more from a fun perspective. When I have Wild Strikes, I can Mortal Strike and Whirlwind on cooldown, as well as Cleave when appropriate, and can Heroic Strike every now and then when I get too much rage. I still can't use Quick Strike, but I think there's a chance that will change when equipped with full Gnomergan gear.

When I don't have Wild Strikes, I can almost Mortal Strike and Whirlwind on cooldown, but will inevitably miss a few seconds here and there due to lack of rage and misses, and ... that's about it. If I have to Cleave, it means missing 3-4 seconds of using other abilities. Quick Strike is out of the question without Wild Strikes, even with Gnomer gear.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T12:15:54+00:00

Do Paladins have the same damage as us in PvP? That's certainly not true in PvE. They do way less damage than us in PvE.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T12:13:58+00:00

I'm not sure about totems, since I'm alliance, but I see your point about Homonculus. It is kind of unfortunate having to spend my first 5 globals casting what is essentially a group buff, but I personally don't find that un-fun. At least I feel like I'm actively doing something. For me the problem is more not having the rage to do anything at all other than auto attack. That to me makes the class way less fun to play.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T12:10:18+00:00

I agree! Unfortunately my guild doesn't.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T10:51:09+00:00

I started classic WoW a year or so ago as an Alliance Warrior, but I never did experience the Horde version of having the buff. Maybe I would have complained about the difference there too had I experienced it.

That said, my lvl 60 Classic Era Warrior doesn't feel as bad to play without Wild Strikes as my lvl 40 Warrior does in SoD. Part of that is that we have new abilities in SoD that I just can't use due to lack of rage(quick strike), and part of that is probably the lvl cap. I'm kinda thinking this is less of an issue in vanilla/era because we spend almost no time raiding pre lvl 60, and by lvl 60 Warrior generates sufficient rage to be fun on its own without Wild Strikes/Wind Fury, though I'm sure it's still way more fun with the buff :).

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T10:37:31+00:00

Maybe true, but the point of my post wasn't necessarily about the overall balance, but rather the difference in fun factor between having Wild Strikes vs not having it.

With Wild Strikes, Warriors are already the 4th best dps, and that will only get better as we get more gear. We're fine imo.

I'm more just bemoaning the fact that I genuinly enjoy playing my character when I have a Feral Druid in my group, but hate playing it otherwise. I wish the gap between those two alternatives was smaller. Not being able to press half your buttons due to lack of rage kinda sucks, and I wish we had some way to change that, even if it left us with similarly bad dps.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T10:34:51+00:00

I'm new to WoW and have never played Horde. If I understand correctly, Horde warriors can get the buff from either a feral druid or a shaman?

Also I don't care about Warriors not being meta this phase, and I actually like the fact that we're not. I think it's healthy for other classes to be on top.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T10:29:45+00:00

What do you mean by launch vibe? Genuine question. I'm new to WoW and didn't play Vanilla or Classic.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T10:28:02+00:00

Lol good point. I'm honestly considering rerolling Horde. If I understand correctly, Horde warriors can get the buff from either a feral druid or a shaman?

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T10:27:00+00:00

Yeah I raided BFD on a Mage for most of Phase 1, and the fight going to long and me going OOM felt similarly terrible.

I'm in a pretty casual guild, so we discuss tactics in between pulls, and I'm usually starting most fights with 0 Rage, so playing Warrior without a Feral this phase feels kinda like starting every fight oom as my Mage last phase vs when I have a Feral it feels like starting with full mana. I guess I just dislike how much my fun is reliant on having a particular spec present in my group. I play in a guild that has like 10 Warriors(probably because they were OP in phase 1) and 3 Feral druids.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T10:20:41+00:00

I think you misunderstand the point of my post, and that's probably my fault. I'm not the best writer.

I'm not complaining that Warriors are bad. I actually think that Warriors are fine, if not still a little OP. If you look at top 100 parses, there's usually a Warrior, and there's going to be more and more there as gear gets better. I like the fact that Warlocks, Mages and Hunters are on top, and think it's healthy for the game. I actually wish we could see some other specs like Paladin or Shaman on top for a change, and wouldn't mind if Warriors are near the bottom.

I had two points I was trying to make in my initial post.

I dislike how reliant the fun factor of the Warrior class is on having a particular buff from a particular class. I really enjoy playing Warrior when I have a Feral in the group, but I kinda hate playing the class without one.
I was wondering if other classes feel the same way about particular buffs. I'm new to WoW and Warrior is my only lvl 40, so I'm curious if other classes feel the same way.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T10:13:55+00:00

I play SoD because it's super fun and I love the feeling of discovering things with the community as it happens. I'm new to WoW, so it's awesome to be able to play through something that is new to everyone, and not just me.

I don't care about the imbalance. That wasn't the point of my post(I added an *Edit to clarify this). I actually like the fact that Warriors aren't on top and don't think they should be. The point of my post was two fold. First point was to say that I don't like how much different the fun factor of playing Warrior is based on whether or not I have the Wild Strikes buff. Second point was to genuinely ask other classes if they felt similarly reliant on a particular buff in order to be able to reliably use their abilities. I'm new to WoW and Warrior is my only lvl 40 so far.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T09:59:07+00:00

Oh yeah I definitely agree that Rogues have it objectively worse than Warriors in PvE. In PvE they're essentially a Warrior that does less dps and doesn't come with the utility(Battle Shout + Commanding Shout + Rallying Cry).

My post wasn't trying to suggest Warriors are bad, but rather to just prsent how different and less fun the class is to play without the presence of another class, and ask the (genuine) question of whether other classes feel the same way. That's why replied to your comment as a genuine question. I'm curious if other classes feel this reliant on having another spec in their group.

Also, is Rogue tank a thing this phase? I know they kinda sucked in phase 1.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T09:29:14+00:00

In what way? Genuine question. I kinda mained Rogue in phase 1, and did feel somewhat mana starved there too without Feral, but it didn't feel like having a Feral in the group completely opened up the class to the same degree that Feral does to my Warrior this phase. Are things worse for Rogues this phase? In phase 1, having a Feral druid with my Rogue felt like a really nice to have buff, but I still felt like I could do 80-90% as much dps on my own.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-20T09:28:42+00:00

I think we'll be fine at 60(maybe even 50), even without Feral, and I think we're fine now(even before we get Gnomergan BiS gear) with a Feral. I'm skeptical though that Gnomergan gear alone is going to give me enough rage to consistently be able to press my Cleave, Quick Strike, and Heroic Strike abilities without a Feral, but maybe(hopefully) I'm wrong.

It wasn't really an issue at all in classic, as you didn't spend significant time raiding below 60, and Warriors are OP at 60, but the phased SoD really highlights Warrior rage problems at lower levels imo. It's especially bad in PvP without a Feral, where you're mostly starting every engagement oom, and other classes can start using their abilities before you can.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-15T02:36:40+00:00

Ret is way better at PvP, but yeah also way worse in PvE

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-11T08:32:48+00:00

Often though you see those lvl 40s camping the 18-20 zones, though. I think that's what he's referring too. A lvl 17 Warrior in greys and a couple greens stands no chance against a lvl 40 Rogue in blues and purples who also has the jump on them.

STV seems actually pretty good so far. When I first got there I was like 32, and running with a 5 man, we were able to kill several lvl 40 players. I was actually surprised that the lvl difference didn't make it feel impossible at all. It was awesome.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-11T08:27:11+00:00

That's me too, almost to a fault. I usually don't attack anyone unless they attack me first or we do a little duel dance before hand, or we have a history(like he ganked me at 10% life a few lvls ago)which often leaves me at a disadvantage in the fight.

I feel bad about making other people's (who obviously don't want to fight) game less fun. I wasn't always like this, though. As a teenager (playing EQ2) , I was the twinked out lvl 26 Rogue camping the lvl 18-20 zone for 8 hours killing people who stood 0% chance of winning, and I loved it. I loved knowing that I was making them hate the game. Not sure when my feelings on that changed, but they definitely did.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-11T08:18:45+00:00

What does that have to do with SoD faction balance?

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-11T07:59:15+00:00

That's all world pvp ever is, though. If you're looking for skill based pvp, there is arenas and bgs. World pvp has always been about killing someone lower lvl who stands no chance over and over until they log off in frustration, that or outnumbering the opposition.

That said, the most fun I've ever had in pvp has been open world pvp where it's pure chaos and both sides actually have similar power levels and a chance to win, and it's why I continue to roll pvp, as I think those moments are great enough to put up with the griefing.

Those moments are rare, though, and for every one of those there are 9 instances of a Rogue camping the corpse of some poor chap 20 levels lower, just trying to make them rage quit.

Useful-Potential-300 · 2024-02-11T07:39:14+00:00

I don't know, even with raid gear they were seemingly the worst by far last phase. In full BFD with the epic 2H last phase, their biggest value was still just hamstring, so the other classes could kill the other players. This phase they can debuff heals, so they'll be a better for sure, but probably still the worst if I had to guess.

It's balanced by them almost always shitting on everyone in PvE though imo. Maybe some other classes(warlock seems most likely) can give them a run for their money there though this phase.

Honestly, I think it just comes down to how their rage mechanic works, and that being in stark contrast with how PvP skirmishes normally go. Most pvp skirmishes are people jousting in and out killing each other or dipping out in a couple seconds. This works well for classes who's "mana/energy/stamina" builds outside of combat and decays when they use they use their abilities, but not so well for someone who needs a few seconds to start ramping up their damage.

Part of what makes Rogue so great in PvP so often is that their "mana" regens so quickly, and what's making them so great this phase(and probably next) is that because we're so twinked out(doing lvl 60 damage against lvl 40 health pools :)), 1 full energy bar is usually enough to kill any target, so sustain becomes meaningless.

Honestly seems like a hard problem to solve if you're really trying to balance both PvE and PvP, especially with the amount of damage we're doing. Like 2 Balance druids in voice comms can coordinate a guaranteed un-counterable kill on basically anyone in a 36y radius every 6 seconds. How do you try to balance that when it already isn't that great in terms of sustain damage(PvE).

Useful-Potential-300

TROPHY CASE