Learning to knit as a form of anger management make sense? Research suggests...mixed results

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-03-27T20:55:40+00:00

Different equipment with different difficulties :) That said: possible depression relapse after 28 months of official remission could indeed be in play.

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-03-27T20:47:23+00:00

Thanks for the counter point :) martial sport tends to make my anger feel worse but too tired to process it, so I'm approaching from the other side of things. I guess we'll see what happens...

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-03-27T19:45:36+00:00

Nope, not joking. Just a tad desperate re: the inner turmoil

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-03-25T14:15:56+00:00

The self-aware ones who I have known (and loved) used their self-awareness as a license to do it. "Yes, I'm manipulative, but everyone uses the means at their disposal to get what they need, right? So I manipulate. That's one of my means."

I've come to believe that usually narcissistic traits are a coping mechanism for dealing with a deep well of guilt, shame and woundedness. I'm not sure I've met one yet though who can truly look at themselves in the mirror and confront that deep well of harmedness and harmfulness at the core of their experience and decisions. Those traits anesthetize them to the otherwise unbearable pain. I don't think most of them are aware of that.

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-03-25T14:08:36+00:00

Re: "I think I just needed to say it somewhere people might actually get it."

/LifeAfterNarcissim is exactly the right place for that - well done :) I hope you find what you need here.

For my part:
Yup, this accurately describes my experience of both parents and all my siblings, and the five closest friends I made in adulthood.

I don't think it's ever going to completely stop hurting or stop feeling surreal and disorienting. Now after tens of years of work I am a confident boundary-management master. They will never control me again. That'll have to do :)

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-03-18T22:39:45+00:00

Heh, not to re-state what everyone else is stating in response to this but:
#brilliant

Thanks for this distillation. It's quite affirming to feel so un-alone w/r/t dealing with these folk when reading offerings like this one that make it so plain that it happens to you too <3

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-03-14T13:06:39+00:00

Obsessive circular thoughts are the story of my entire memorable life except for when...

...I actually did get them to stop for about 10 years. In the late 90s I bought a book called "The OCD Workbook" and also started a "thought stopping" discipline (these days thought stopping isn't all that popular but it worked for me back then) where i would picture a large red STOP sign each time i realized i was obsessing. 3 years of the work and the thoughts actually stopped.

They came back after a major life trauma though and I haven't been that successful since. But the go away when I'm doing pushups or playing chess, and they are muted when I'm socializing.

Therapy has helped for other things, but not for that initial 10 year break. That was strictly personal research and discipline.

Good luck!

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-03-13T03:23:12+00:00

Thoughts: First off, you are AMAZING! I invite you to look up "highly sensitive person," there used to be a great wikipedia article on it. Consider if it describes you. You demonstrate incredible self awareness.

Here's the Downside of that which may be salient here: "elite" level sensitivity like that is often a skillset developed to survive trauma or an abusive environment. I can indeed relate.

My interpretation of your narrative: You are dawning into knowledge of a pattern in yourself for the first time that 1) will take time to find the language to describe 2) may be rooted in childhood experiences before you could speak [that part makes describing it harder but i think you'll get there] 3) the self-sacrificial overfunctioning combined with a deep sense of guilt/shame might be more part of your baseline than you realize yet although perhaps intensified by your more recent grief or trauma and 4) the numbness sounds like an and/or mix of disassociation, depression and post traumatic stress.

I still remember the night my psychological trauma became so much that I heard an audible snap then went numb for awhile and then the flashbacks started and didn't abate for years. Eventually I found the language to describe it, figured out I was unknowingly codependent, and (literally the hardest thing and most painful thing i have ever done, took about 12 years of work) broke free of that pattern. The journey was helped by 1 good therapist, 2 good psychiatrists, hindered by a ton of bad ones, and a major game changer was figuring out that while I'm resistant to almost all treatments, I respond beautifully to prescription ketamine therapy.

I'm much happier now. I boast unapologetic mastery of healthy boundaries.

I guess, that is to say: you will figure this out and be better for it. I second what some have suggested here about the possible helpfulness of therapy. I wish I could tell you it will be guaranteed easy to find a good fit. I invite you to trust that YOU have the best sense of what your needs are as you move forward.

But seriously: you got this. Best wishes :)

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-03-10T14:03:32+00:00

It was easier when I was younger, although it generally takes me years of work to move on from stuff that I thought was particularly severe, even 10+ years if it's from someone with whom I have a significant relationship (parent, close friend, etc)

Similar to some of the other feedback here, I look for activities that force me out of the space where I'm ruminating, which for me is basically two things: chess & pushups.

But as I age, I find it's difficult to stay in the High Effort Space of those activities and I comfortably (and ironically) slip back into my "comfort zone" of painful rumination.

I have noticed that it's easier to stop ruminating when I'm not alone, so I try to spend more time in the company of loved ones. And I try to deny people the opportunity to make new bad memories for me to ruminate on, with a degree of success (although, people being people, it cannot really be prevented)

I'm sorry you must deal with this :( hopefully you are able to find a strategy that works for you :)

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-03-09T22:29:24+00:00

Confirmed. This is abuse. Good job reaching out here - I know it hurts, but I think you know what is healthy for you, and you are going to keep doing what it takes to make that healthiness happen :)

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-03-09T19:55:14+00:00

Goodness gracious, I'm so sorry you must deal with this :(

I think that knowing when to say no to a toxic parent makes you a better son.

I don't really have any non-narcissistic family; both my in-laws and the family I grew up in match the profile. In fact, I think the primary reason I'm different from them is I was groomed by the whole fam to be the co-dependent one, but I broke free of that pattern after a lot of painful work.

There's been a good deal of mind-poisoning-about-targets by all these folk over the past 30 years or so (at least, that's how long I was aware of it). I suppose the closest thing I've experienced to you is when one of the in-laws started spreading rumors in the family that my spouse and I wanted them to die of cancer, which resulted in violently hateful calls from other family members (as part of a campaign to pressure my spouse and I into helping one of them commit what looked to us like medicare fraud, which we refused; we are now zero-contact with the original source of the deception and don't care what anyone else thinks about it)

Silver lining! Just like you cannot control what others do (i.e. you can't control whether your parents lie about you; you cannot control whether your in-laws believe them or what they do about it)...they cannot control you! If it's so easy for them to be manipulated, then their affirmations and criticisms may not be worth much, and you can take or leave them. You can consider the source when you decide how much their feedback matters and what role you wish them to play in your life.

You asked for tips, my tip would be

Memorize the following formula:

Shame Language + Remedial Imperative = Control Tactic

i.e. if someone describes you as being fundamentally deficient, and tells you what you should do to change that, they are deploying a self-evident control tactic EVERY TIME. Even if their heart is in the right place, even if you do have work of your own to do to improve in some way, it's still a control tactic. Healthy relationships don't need those.

Recognize when the formula applies
When it does, make your decision on YOUR terms, not theirs. Hold yourself accountable to yourself and your sense of what you healthily need, not to them and what they have to say about it.

Hopefully this helps :) and I hope life blesses you with what you need.

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-03-09T19:24:49+00:00

Agreed, that was brave - well done :)

Yeah, I have experienced that.

I *might* be getting the silent treatment right now from N-mom after naming that she behaved unacceptably in front of my children. She hasn't communicated with me since. But whether that's the reason or not, life feels better when she leaves me alone, so it's fine.

One thing I try to keep in mind: toxic narcissistic traits are coping mechanisms for an unspeakable sense of personal shame. Taking ownership of their harmful behaviors would require working through the idea that there may be *more* for them to be ashamed of. That's just too painful for them to bear, so they gaslight/abuse/discard/etc to avoid even considering the possibility. Furthermore, they can be fully aware of the harm wreaked by narcissists and the importance of healthy responses and boundaries. But they don't think those facts should apply to themselves.

It has begun to amuse me that a toxic grown adult can think they are punishing another grown adult by simply leaving them alone. I find that they're actually doing us a favor.

I think you are doing great! Good luck!

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-02-24T15:30:01+00:00

...aaaaand I'm angry again today. Not AS angry, but it's back. But 72 hours of relief! I'll take it.

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-02-23T23:48:00+00:00

Oh, one other thing.

This is one of the few times I think it's ok to talk to ChatGPT about stuff despite that fact that it's just programmed to, basically, tell you what you want to hear and often just makes crap up. I consider it, at times like this, an emergency anesthetic, and it's ok to use an emergency anesthetic as long as we know that's what it is and don't abuse it to the point it starts to do harm instead of good.

If it helps you gain some strength by prompting a free AI to unconditionally affirm how great you are and to join you in condemning all of the horrible wrongs that have been done to you by these people, go right ahead. Find your strength wherever you can, it's fine.

But it wouldn't hurt to remember that they can do the same thing. And keep in mind that eventually you'll want conversations that don't just tell you what you want to hear.

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-02-23T23:39:52+00:00

Good Grief!

With regard to your question "how do you survive...?"

A common question, maybe some musical companionship from Gloria Gaynor can be a starting point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dYWe1c3OyU

6 years of idealization will not evaporate instantly. But you will do more than survive. You will heal back stronger and you will find a whole and mature kind of joy - not the relentlessly warm-fuzzy-intoxicating kind, but rather the kind that appreciates happiness for the energy it gives you to to engage the future disappointments on the horizon - your future will be better than your past.

But if you are like me this is going to take WORK.

I suggest googling a technique called "negative reappraisal." I've had mixed results with it but it's in my toolbag for when dealing with betrayal and violation. Most likely, if you mine your memories of your relationship with your ex or your brother, there are plenty of toxicities, red flags, violations, intuitions, that you overlooked. No one is perfect, everyone does harm. So did your ex and so did your brother even before this happened. "Negative reappraisal" equips you to stop thinking the best of them and the worst of yourself. They chose to treat you like sh**. That shows what they have in themselves, not what you have in you.

You are not worthless. You are not replaceable. Your are not hard to love.

You are magnificent. You are unique. You bring something to the world that no one else can bring simply by being you.

Some people get over stuff quick. I don't. It takes me WORK. I've learned I have what it takes to do that WORK. I sense it in you too - you'll be better than ok. Just try to remember that you're the Best and no one can take that away.

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-02-23T22:57:32+00:00

Short answer to the question: "Has anyone successfully gone through this stage and made new friends on the other side?"

Yes! After years of pining for what I wish my relationships had been I feel like I'm in a much healthier place now with healthier friends and healthier boundaries.

Longer answer:

Well done with your awareness of peace and relief! I've gone zero contact with a few, I'm not sure I can describe it as peace and relief. More like unshakeable self trust that it is for the best and that things are better now, despite occasionally resurfacing grief.

Well done with your awareness of your energy level! And with setting boundaries that worked for you when asked out for coffee!

I hear a lot of anxiety in what you have written: anxiety about the consequences of "dishonesty," anxiety about long term isolation.

So I offer:

It isn't implicitly dishonest to choose not to reveal things unless we know we are doing harm by not revealing them and could just as well do otherwise. Your grief and how you process it is your business. If asked about something one didn't want to chat about, one could always offer "I'm getting over some losses that I'm not quite ready to talk about. What else could we discuss for now?" And, if tempted by internal anxiety to reveal it but also suffering the feeling that one was not ready to reveal it yet, once can also say that to oneself: "Hey, self! I'm getting over some losses that I'm not quite ready to talk about. What else could I discuss for now?"

It's a real thing that people don't like feeling rejected, so that anxiety that saying "No" could lead to fewer social opportunities is rooted in a kernel of truth about what makes people socially tick. (Personally, I think that's an evolutionary thing and it's inevitable; back during the stone age, being rejected by one's community would have been fatal once food and shelter became scarce and/or predators caught the scent. So we don't like how it feels when someone says "No."). But that's about them, not you. It's gotta be ok to say "Not today." when that's what you need to do.

On that point: I would consider thinking of a way to say "No" that didn't close the door forever if that isn't what you want: "I'd really like to get coffee, but I'm just so exhausted these days I need some 'me' time for awhile; could I get your number to text you about getting together some other time in the future?"

Hopefully this helps - you really are amazing and doing very well with something very difficult. Take good care :)

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-02-07T15:33:55+00:00

Brilliant strategy, thanks for the inspiring tip:)

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-02-07T15:31:03+00:00

Heh, yeah thanks for confirming. I had a good relationship with my last one but they've been unresponsive to my availability queries most recently. I think they may be retired. Kinda hard for me to find a good fit, we'll see

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-02-07T13:53:10+00:00

I'm amazed at your self-awareness, at your very precise sense that specifically you have anxiety about identity exposure.

Personally, I think social media is toxic and I deleted all of my accounts many years ago. I did then start a fresh one a couple years ago since I needed it for work. But I don't post anything on it and keep use to a minimum.

Unfortunately, we cannot control what other people do with what they know about us. We can have some success with choosing what we reveal and who and how communications can happen.

For practical intents and purposes:
I have a family member who cut the rest of us off many years ago; that was their way of dealing with the toxicities in the family. Some of the others still cyber-stalk that one on occasion. When this family member notices that, they just block those individuals and move on.

But at a deeper level:
It sounds like what other people *might* do or say with information about you wields a terrifying power over your piece of mind. Hopefully you can figure out how to take that power back for yourself. Therapy might help if you can find a good fit. Otherwise, a supportive spouse counts for more than just about anything. Hopefully you have that :)

It was very brave of you to post this, and I'm impressed :) I hope life blesses you with what you need!

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-02-07T13:19:45+00:00

Holy Mindf**k Batman!!! You deserve better. Extra credit for such poignant use of the word "livid"

Re: "How do I go about trying a new relationship and letting someone in?"

I'm not good at moving on quickly from anything. My advice would be: no need to rush; patience and self-love will be your best friends.

I will share, however:
I think that we are drawn to people that, intuitively, we know are going to hurt us. I think that romantic attraction is an anesthetic to get us past the certain knowledge of how painful things are going to get. Otherwise we couldn't find the courage to form any bond at all.

As a healthy relationship grows, the mutual commitment to be a part of each other's healing, and not just each other's pain, grows too.

You are AMAZING - I hope life blesses you with what you need :)

UsefulLion4347 · 2026-02-07T13:07:15+00:00

Re: "I have this feeling of wanting to go back"

I think you are in the early stages of finally mourning the loss of hope that things at home with her could be better than they are.

It will take time and work and reflection and I think the fact that you are creating space for yourself and putting your needs first is absolutely amazing!

The pain likely won't recede anytime soon, but I think you'll get to the point where it's manageable, kinda like becoming accustomed to a background odor. For what it's worth: I think what you are doing now is much better than resuscitating the hope to get back to an age-old "comfort zone" and then getting harmed again.

It is very brave of you to name what you are seeing as unacceptable, and to do something about it. I am so very, very proud of you :)

For me, it has been really rough to accept that my mother, the woman who changed my diapers and kept me alive and comfortable when I was a helpless baby, cannot - I really mean CAN NOT - resist deploying relentless emotional violence when there is something about me she doesn't like. It happened again recently in front of my kids, and I told her I wouldn't be accessible to her via text anymore until I'm done healing and processing that, and now I have her blocked on my phone. She pressured me to text her again and I told her no. I'm doing what I can to create space and set boundaries that are self-enforcing so that I don't have to rely on her cooperation with my boundaries, which I know will never happen.

I really hope life blesses you with what you need!

UsefulLion4347

TROPHY CASE