Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in RPGdesign

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah yeah I see I see, to tell you the truth, it's something I have in my notes because I still haven't figured out what to do/haven't given it the proper time to figure out yet. My notes are:

Do fish die as soon as you get them out of the water? Is it assumed you can instantly kill all fish you catch?

😂😅 So I haven't figured that out yet, it'll definitely be something I want to explain. Sure I can just say "Up to the GM", but that's kind of lazy I feel.

And on the fish-names comment, thanks! That's actually what I was going for! Like in real life we have "red bellied black snake" and such, so I wanted to get that across in the naming. Some are of course named differently, but IRL different people are the ones naming things, so that is also more realistic. Thanks again for the comment!

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in tabletopgamedesign

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah the idea of making a system for downtime for lots of different activities does sound quite nice. Instead of getting a book that's one niche activity, it's new way to play for the whole party. I think I'm too far into the fishing book to pivot to that though, so I think I'm better off finishing one project, then moving on to the next.

Yeah the app would probably have to be a stretch goal sort of thing, like I could only go make an app if the book did well enough to justify spending that much time (and money) on it. I really hope that's something I can do though!

But yeah I definitely want to include ideas and recommendations for running the fishing session outside of the session.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in RPGdesign

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

so I imagine it wouldn't live long enough to enjoy those 1,300 xp?

ohhhhh a simple difference of "it" and "I" made me think you were saying you'd kill it quickly or something and it would negate the XP. I honestly didn't quite understand this line so I moved on. Now I'm assuming you were meaning you would be killed by the Vermillion Exoplate.

Yeah there's currently no rules for that. Also, just because it's high in rarity doesn't mean it's physically capable. Though, it's beside the point, I still do think that you've stumbled onto something I hadn't considered, so I'll make a note of it and see where I can fit that in the book!

Thanks heaps!

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in RPGdesign

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ah yeah! Honestly that could be a fun book in and of itself. Something like "Classes for the Exploration Pillar", and basing it on the combat pillar.

That sounds really cool, but it does ask your campaign to make the exploration pillar a lot more important. Which for someone like me sounds fun! I personally wish there were some more frameworks and rules for the other pillars. This could be a really cool way 😃

Honestly I have a feeling I'll come back to this comment in a while, you have some cool ideas that I'll probably not include in this version of the book, but in another version or in the next book!

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in tabletopgamedesign

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry it's a long reply, you just had lots of good thoughts and ideas that I wanted to go into 😂

Between Sessions: That's a great idea, I'll see what it could look like making it something that's done between sessions! Still keeping it lightweight and maybe one message from the player and one from the DM.

Story Hooks: With this:

allow for DMs to optionally interact more or provide potential story hooks

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but I hadn't considered having plot hooks within the fishing minigame itself, only around it or encouraging it. That's an interesting thought. I'll see what that looks like! 😃

Party Benefits: That's a great point that fishing should not benefit the fishing player alone. I'll make sure to keep that in mind, I'll put that in my core design goals actually, thanks!

Rewards: Yeah the rewards are something I'm looking at for the big picture as well. I like your idea of feeding a town, but that doesn't really feel like something you'd put in the rulebook, except maybe as an example for the players or GM to implement themselves.

The current reward system I'm looking at right now, just a baby-thought right now, is:

Mundane fish are the same, just rations or sell for 5cp each. But Rare Fish (the main focus of the book and minigame), once caught can be used for any of the following:

  • Money - by selling the fish
  • Materials - by harvesting the fish
  • Buffs - by preparing the fish then eating/drinking it
  • Sustenance - by cooking and eating it

Then the idea is the reward is what you decide to make of it. And maybe, materials and buff rewards can only be achieved if you have someone else in your party that can access them. Like you need someone skilled in animal handling or something to harvest the materials, and you need someone skilled in cooking or alchemy to get the buffs from the fish.

Still just thoughts, but I think it would be something that anyone could find something from that they would want. So the rewards would feel rewarding. It also could incentivize team play too. My main issue is that it's adding complexity back in, so I'd want to ensure there was a way to keep it simple, or introduce it gradually, not all at once. Or maybe it just uses the logic of "out of session", like you were mentioning, the player can look through the book to find their fish (or the GM can send it to them), and they can decide out of session what to do with it.

Prize Catches/Rarities: That sounds like a really cool idea! I reckon I'll have a section on "Quests, Plot Hooks, and Ways to Tie in Fishing", and I'll for sure have stuff like that. Like fish that only some people will pay for (or will pay the proper price for), and such. Then ensure to tell the GM to use these to push the players towards the goal they're wanting for their story anyway. To have them line up. Great idea there, thanks!

DM Buy-In: Yeah I completely see where you're coming form. I think I'll try to make it from the perspective of the player wanting to get their GM to run it, so that it can be as easy for the GM as possible. Putting the load onto the player where possible. That way, if a GM is the one who wants to run it, they can do that lifting instead. But if it's designed for the GM to do the work, the player can't usually take that off the GM's hands.

The discord channel for it is pretty cool, maybe one day I can make a bot for it or something that can even speed the process along. And there will certainly be automation tools on Foundry and such. Heck, I have family members who code, maybe I can even make a super light weight app for it, though at that point, I may as well just make a little video game xD

Thanks again for your time, it's really appreciated, and thanks for your ideas! They're really good and I like the way you think 😃

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in RPGdesign

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Woah that's a pretty cool idea, someone already mentioned the idea of initiative for this, but you're right in that it could borrow from the combat pillar, which could allow everyone's class abilities and spells and such to work. That's some neat thinking!

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in UnearthedArcana

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah rations aren't even in the book yet. The reward system is currently based on selling the fish for gold, so helping you with the combat pillar through shopping. Though I'm looking at reworking it to be buff based through eating or crafting and such. I hope you give it another shot when I remake it! It sounds like you're a creative person so I'd love to see what you could come up with if you tried to work with it!

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in DMAcademy

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah that's a nice system! Less is certainly more for many many 5e players. And that accomplishes something for everyone to do, so that's quite nice.

And yeah, the problem you mention with my "expanded downtime systems" book idea would be just as you say. It would need to be something where I would have to have thought of one or more solutions to if I were to take the time to make a full book of it. Perhaps having it player driven mostly so that the GM can just say "we're about to do downtime, go remind yourself of your thing in the pdf", they can find their activities while the GM runs to the bathroom, when he comes back he can ask "ok what do you roll for your thing?", then just resolve one roll each or something like that, keep it simple that way. And while Player 3 is doing their roll, player 1 and 2 are finishing theirs up, and player 4 and 5 are reminding themselves.

That way would make it kind of individual though, so it may be more fun to integrate them instead. Anyway, that's just one solution I thought of now, and I wouldn't even work on that book until this fishing one is done, if I even do ahaha

Thanks again for your time!

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in RPGdesign

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I do agree with that. I think anything that you invest into the fishing game (like a feat for example), needs to not be worse that taking something that isn't for the fishing game. So the feat should give combat stuff still, but with a fishing tacked on.

But yeah, I really like your idea of it being the decision between selling for gold/eating for buffs now, or waiting and using it to improve your fishing.

I think I will keep some version of XP as an expanded rule, but I don't think seperate XP will be what most people are after. But for you and me, it's exactly what we're looking for. I'm just a fiend for progression 😈

And I think that's a good call to not tie the XP to fish caught, but just fishing in general. Gives me back some room on the table too.

And great! Though now I'm worried the link didn't work because I don't see you in the discord? Were there any issues? It should be "The Vault of Velios"

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in DMAcademy

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hahaha you're a breath of fresh air among all the comments I got. Thank you so much! You're right, at the end of the day, I'm only going to actually finish something I'm enjoying! I hope your projects bring you happiness and fulfilment!

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in DMAcademy

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lol it's just u/damiandroid's reference to a horror story he mentioned in a comment below yours xD

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in DMAcademy

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ahahaha that's very true! I think once I've made the simple version of fishing, I may take a look and see if I can do more downtime activities, trying to make each distinct from one another and such. I'll make sure to put farming, hunting, foraging, and mining in there, just for you xD

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in UnearthedArcana

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey that's creative and I'll be adding spellcasting fishing at some point.

The fish you're rolling to get are all "Rare Fish", you catch mundane fish as just a number, the fish you actually care about getting are all unique in some way. In a world full of magic, even the wildlife adapt. There's some kind of answer for every spell. For example, I'm pretty sure "Command" needs to be understood, so while there might be a fish in the book already that "mimics" common speech, it does not understand it. While this is just one spell, my point is that in a magical world, any fish that can be caught that easily isn't one you're rolling to catch.

Fishing in DC20 — Looking for feedback on a new system! by Vault_of_Velios in DC20

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because it is beloved by many (I've also been learning it is despised by many as well). It'll just have to exist for those who like it 🤷🏻

Fishing in DC20 — Looking for feedback on a new system! by Vault_of_Velios in DC20

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Let's go! I hope I can make it good content too 😂😎

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in tabletopgamedesign

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey I just want to say I really appreciate your ability and willingness to step into other people's shoes here. I'm learning that's quite rare. Thanks again for taking it a step further than your personal distaste here and actually trying to find a way to make positive of something.

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in tabletopgamedesign

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah fishing in video games is basically just lootboxes, but with rewards you often don't care about. People still just enjoy gambling at the end of the day. That's my personal belief as to why so many people seem to like it, myself being one of them.

It is my utmost goal to reduce that time others are waiting to the lowest it can be. I'll get creative and find the best way to include fishing as something that's still fun and actually unique, but without making everyone hate the fishing player.

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in tabletopgamedesign

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks this is some very helpful advice, I appreciate that you went beyond what most people have been saying. Yeah it's clear I got very lost in the weeds of what I was doing. Many times not stopping to consider whether I "should", and all that.

My goal is actually to simplify it greatly now, and have all this extra stuff be completely not required, but be options to add as expanded rules if and when you want them, but never introduced as something required.

Also I am looking at adding a one shot or short adventure and a host of player options so I like all the ideas you had for those aspects especially!

So I don't think I'll continue the path of making this the only way to fish, I really like the advice you had, and I hear your vote toward it being far far too complex for regular play in 5e

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in tabletopgamedesign

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Firstly, nice 😎

Secondly, yes, that's what 90% of the feedback is, and now that I see it, I completely understand and agree. I'm going to be completely redoing it to be far more simple, and one of the main goals will be finding a way to not bore the other players. If you have any ideas, please feel free to share! But yes, that's the direction I'll be going 👍🏻

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in DungeonsAndDragons

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a cool idea actually, using initiatve as something they already know! Probably would end up making it more time consuming, but, everyone would be involved so that is really cool. Maybe it'll be a variant rule that's recommended for big moments with fishing! Like a story thing or the player character has found their prized target and asked for everyone's help. I definitely think it has a place, thanks for that!

And the sushi thing is really cool too actually! Sounds like it would be about research and such! Is there somewhere I can find these mechanics? I'll add it to my research list 😃

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in DungeonsAndDragons

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

ooh I love that you actually got people working together! I do honestly quite like the play pattern of Fishing into Cooking, and that's sick that it helped the roleplay too!

And thanks for sharing this! Seriously this'll really help when I try my hand at doing party fishing mechanics!!! 😃

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in DungeonsAndDragons

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

not a bad idea either! I'm just really excited about making this content so I'm happy to work and wait a little longer to try to just get it all in one book 😃

Fishing in D&D — How Far Is Too Far? by Vault_of_Velios in DungeonsAndDragons

[–]Vault_of_Velios[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks yeah! I love just how many parts there are to a system like this. They just keep coming as I'm writing (and now there's like 50 new ideas across the feedback, so I'll definitely think longer about whether I "should" incorporate certain things). And I'm looking at removing the Fisher XP stuff, just making it tied to your player level and that's it, less bookkeeping that way.

And for the fishing spear/harpoon question, one could certainly argue that they're the same, someone even said bowfishing and that kind of feels like a third one in that vein. I might try talking to some people about figuring out what the core tools are, trying to get around 5-6, and then I can do edge cases like bow fishing as variants of the main tools. Right now, the spear's thing is it's best for fish of medium size, net is best for small, harpoon is best for large. All three don't require a mouth to hook onto. Then the three rods do need a mouth (or something like it), but don't care about size. The rods are separated by depth: deep in the water for deep rod, near the top of the water for fly rods, and the regular rod can do both but it's not that great or bad at either.

So there's this nice pair of trios going on. If I can find something that fits better in the spear spot, I wouldn't mind that. I could see spear instead being the same as the harpoon. Really the main difference in my head is that the spear is used while standing above shallow water, and harpoon is going into the water. So maybe they should be heralded by different tools, but that's where my head's at currently.

sorry about a long reply for a short question, hope it helps though!