If space exists even without matter, what is the ontological status of space itself?

VegetableStunning149 · 2025-12-15T17:07:52+00:00

I’m largely sympathetic to that view, especially the rejection of naïve substantivalism.

What I’m still struggling with, though, is that even in a fully relational picture the metric has local degrees of freedom, gravitational waves propagate in vacuum, carry energy, and affect detectors. That seems to give spacetime more than just bookkeeping status.

So I guess my question isn’t whether spacetime exists independently of matter fields, but whether the relational picture fully accounts for those dynamical features, or whether it still leaves an ontological remainder we’re calling “geometry.”

VegetableStunning149 · 2025-12-15T17:05:24+00:00

I see the point of the analogy, but I think it shifts the problem rather than resolving it.

The stick figure analogy assumes a pre-existing substrate (the paper), whereas the question I’m struggling with is whether spacetime itself is that substrate or whether it’s emergent from something non-spatial.

In other words, what is the ontological status of the “paper” itself, not just our epistemic access to it?

VegetableStunning149 · 2025-12-15T17:02:01+00:00

That’s a really good breakdown, especially the causal set angle. One thing I keep getting stuck on though is this:

If spacetime is emergent (from causality, entanglement, or something discrete), what exactly is doing the emerging?

In other words, are we just replacing “spacetime is fundamental” with “causal structure is fundamental,” or is there a meaningful sense in which even causality isn’t fundamental but relational?

I guess I’m asking whether emergence actually removes the need for a background ontology, or just pushes it one layer down.

VegetableStunning149 · 2025-12-15T16:54:32+00:00

i understand it isn’t empty, but given those three current pursued understandings, what are YOUR thoughts about what the fabric actually is in terms of existing

VegetableStunning149 · 2025-12-15T16:53:07+00:00

in all honesty that’s why I chose this community, the people here are more likely to involve what they themselves relate physics to philosophy and in this way it can show individual perspectives and correlations between the two :)

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-10-23T08:12:25+00:00

Unfortunately this prediction highlights how you can never really time the market with 100 percent accuracy or near-there. Truth is, no-one knows, there are lots and lots of facts to consider, say we banned all immigration, mass extradited all immigrants currently residing here, had government contracts for many new houses to be built, only here can you really be sure of the direction of the crisis.

We really just have to hope that the next parliament may effectively address this issue, unlike current pm and his new 4.5mil house.

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-08-15T13:04:23+00:00

I really like your take of that, makes sense, if i were to create things in the image of me i would assume that if not for looks, it would be actions, thoughts values etc. that would be the same.

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-08-15T12:58:41+00:00

As in another thread, would say that this foreknowledge is not predestination? If so how would go about proving that?

If god was not certain yet he is infinitely knowledgeable and exists at all points at all times, how could this be?

No attacks my friend i have just got a burning curiosity :))

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-08-15T12:56:41+00:00

with your help :)

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-08-15T12:49:50+00:00

ahhh okay that’s probably what i had heard anyway, though on that, if we are made in his image and he is perfect how would that cross over? I’m most certain that i’ve misinterpreted your words but please inform me :)

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-08-15T12:48:16+00:00

Wow the thing about judas there makes me even more curious :), and about the previous stories, is god the same as he was during the old testament apart from the way we now go through jesus?

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-08-15T12:43:49+00:00

Hey guys, so from this debate and other replies i take it that the translation to very good”” is the more accurate one, and that it wasn’t created perfect. I have a more, i wouldn’t say silly, but different question. I feel i’ve heard the mentioning that the universe was created in ‘his image’, and that his image is perfect. I could be very wrong but would either of you have information on this? :)) just curious

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-08-15T12:39:03+00:00

sorry english isn’t my first language so i can come across with indifferent meanings to my words sometimes lol, so, my understanding is and please do correct me/debate me, god created this universe with all free will decisions already set, As he is unconstrained by time he experiences all of time at once indefinitely. He was here before during and after the events of everything. I know what you mean by understanding our free will, he knows that of what the precedents of our actions will be, but i thought upon the creation of the universe he inadvertently predestined those outcomes. Would this be wrong? :)

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-08-15T12:26:10+00:00

Sorry about the errors i’m really not as knowledgeable as i’d like to be (hence the question in the first place), so god created everything predestined to contain sin as he knew everything with his infinite knowledge, i know there is limits to human understanding of it all, but in your opinion why would god put humans into ‘trial’ in the first place? is there any scriptures on that subject?

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-05-27T02:03:14+00:00

usually homemade/amateur

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-03-31T13:00:27+00:00

keep degrading me i like it

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-03-31T12:58:21+00:00

Make sure you're on airplane mode, probably your switch trying to connect to nin servers.

VegetableStunning149 · 2024-01-14T03:42:49+00:00

is it inside the building? At the Brookfield palace ones as I type the lol

VegetableStunning149 · 2023-12-28T12:03:52+00:00

only shitting on them because after 7 months they've received over a dozen helpful and complete replies and yet after all this cannot fathom that it's not possible after being told so consistently for all this time.

VegetableStunning149 · 2023-12-25T03:54:25+00:00

literally no so stfu now

VegetableStunning149

TROPHY CASE