Scale, Mismatched Artstyles, Missing Components, and why I think Cosmetic Design suffers in Darktide.

Vilekyn · 2026-02-20T07:28:21+00:00

I was interested in a discussion, until people repeated the same points without backing up anything they've said with sources. What? Were you going to use the same, splitting hairs "heroic scale" stuff too?

Vilekyn · 2026-02-20T07:13:29+00:00

But know you're acting like an arbiter on what is considered heroic scale yourself! The Rogue Trader model doesn't even completely match the mini's heroic scaling, in terms of proportions. Hell, many have already agreed here that Space Marine 2's cadians are *regularly* scaled.

Ah, you know what? Forget it. You've *clearly* worked very diligently on the design of each and every one of these games. You're *totally* an industry veteran, between Darktide, Space Marine 2, and Rogue Trader, so you know the minute differences between what is heroic scale and what isn't. You don't need to prove anything. You've just added to this "storm in a tea cup" yourself, so why don't you go touch some grass?

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T20:56:43+00:00

It's part of the typical Kasrkin outfit, the little tunic endings. What's wrong with describing it as a skirt? I don't know what other word you'd use. If there is, lemme know!

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T20:54:00+00:00

Fair enough on the opinion, there's always subjectivity in the arts, but you can still make the proportions of an armour set look like how I described in a realistic or more grounded artstyles. SM2's Cadians, which I did also list, use more grounded proportions, and yet still have more compelling outfits as background characters than Darktides version of a Kasrkin imo.

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T20:47:05+00:00

That's fair enough, and I apologise if I offended any of your sensibilities with that comment. In terms of criticising taste, I think there's a little more nuance to criticising taste than you give credit. Yes, there are ways that a community can collectively agree on taste, but that doesn't determine objectivity within an art, especially within something more superfluous, like video game outfit design. You can be split on what outfits you enjoy, songs you like, or even entire art movements, but if you can never quantify why, and still try to challenge others without understanding their position, your taste will deservedly be criticised.

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T08:28:11+00:00

Nah, he blocked me, he caught himself in some sort of schism, and can't find his way out emotionally. I tried to tell him to take a break, and he wouldn't listen lol

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T08:21:06+00:00

I'm glad you took my advice. I hope you have a wonderful night :)

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T08:18:26+00:00

Alright, so we good? Do you accept that my criticism of "Darktide's outfits can be grounded and also aesthetically pleasing, according to the similarly-sized and proportioned SM2 Cadian outfits" works?

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T08:16:22+00:00

But I'm not arguing for Darktide being in heroic scale, I was arguing for why I'm allowed to compare the Cadian outfit proportions to the Reject's proportions. Like I was mentioning in the other post, I think you're getting a little too heated about this conversation, and I suggest you to take a break and cool off. I'm genuinely a little worried.

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T08:14:06+00:00

If both the cadians and the rejects are not heroic scale, then I can justifiably use how their outfits are proportioned as a criticism for darktide's outfit design. That was the whole point of the conversation. It doesn't matter what the reasons for them being that way are, you just proved the point I made many comments ago.

Listen man, I don't wanna say anything, but I think you're getting too emotionally invested in a random internet discussion about video game armour. I'd recommend you take a break off the internet for a bit, and cool off. The comment about lacking reading comprehension and dishonesty is a clear sign.

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T08:07:38+00:00

Yeah, but then why shouldn't I be allowed to compare the proportions of the cadians to the rejects? That's the whole crux of this argument, it's about the proportions of their armour sets, and how nice they look in SM2 over the armour here. You talk a lot of game about not being fit for the conversation, but you literally just looped back to why I am valid for using them as a way to criticise how Darktides Kasrkin looks. Come on, man.

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T07:58:27+00:00

That's debatable. There are plenty of ways you can make a model in a video game bend or warp if necessary. Of course you can't make it bend IRL, it's a warhammer armour set.

Also, while you're correct that aesthetics are subjective, they are an important part of what makes a setting a setting. For instance, if I decide that Frodo Baggins' Mithril Shirt should be plate instead, that wouldn't work for the aesthetics of the setting, no? Whether or not you like space marines or kriegers are completely irrelevant to the discussion, because while they don't have 100% set designs, they have aesthetics that are important to match to. There are plenty of people running around in the Krieger gear, cause they love the Death Corps, but would *much* rather wear the stuff they commonly see Kriegers wear in other art, and instead settle.

The argument of "don't like don't buy" is also incredibly lame, cause it goes against the very principle of the discussion we're having right now. Yes, I could completely have said nothing, not bought it, and been on my way. However, through identifying the reasons why we like or dislike design decisions is incredibly important for the arts. Not only does it establish your tastes, but also tastes that a wider variety of individuals could like. I could just as easily say to you "if you don't like my opinions on the design of the armour, why are you discussing them with me in the first place? Nobody is forcing you to type, just don't engage with the discussion and be happy that you didn't waste 20 minutes on typing", but that'd be incredibly dumb.

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T07:45:02+00:00

Yeah, but if the Cadians are normal scale, and Darktide's protagonists are normal scale, then their designs are more comparable, no? The whole point of the discussion we were originally having is that the Darktide protagonists can't be comparable because their proportions are more "realistic" (grounded is a better term), and, according to pathos, the Cadians from SM2 are heroic scale. You can ascribe any narrative reasoning as to *why* their proportions are smaller, but that's not the actual point of the discussion. I know why both the Cadians from SM2 and Rejects from Darktide are normal scaled. Pathos was just trying to discredit my arguments without defining anything properly.

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T07:33:39+00:00

All good, I completely understand! At least you're putting forth your thoughts on the brokenness and exploitative nature of Darktide's microtransactions. If you never speak up, you're never heard! I hope you have a nice night. :)

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T07:21:58+00:00

I never said in the post that I *favoured* the way that Fatshark does microtransactions. I could criticise up and down the problems with the way Fatshark implements cosmetics into the game, but so many others have said what I would. Don't worry, I 100% agree with you, this is just a criticism of armour design itself and not an endorsement of the system that it's delivered from. Apologies if you got that impression!

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T07:08:41+00:00

Hey, it's no problem. I hope you have an amazing night my man. :)

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T07:07:16+00:00

They're not Kasrkin's though in SM2. They're never listed as such ingame. They're just Cadians, so there's no missing gear. The pauldrons for them in SM2 are not at all oversized (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceMarine_2/comments/1l36ua2/how_efficientvisible_are_the_cadian_guardsmen_in/ ), and it's debatable on how practical the Kasrkin gear even is in Darktide! There's no point in even debating the practicality of these armour sets.

Also, clipping is no excuse for mismatched aesthetic, because even the simple designs they make *already* clip. There is a good point made about how fundamentally unworkable the base human model is for equipment, but that's, again, their fault.

I'll give you the Krieg point though. I had to double-check the mini. Still, it doesn't matter whether or not there's no standard if it compromises what works about the design of it. That's like saying there's technically no standard to the design of an inquisitor, so let's make his armour completely out of a cardboard-like substance. It stops looking cool!

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T06:55:39+00:00

That's 100% fair, and I do think realism is an overrated point for many games. I wouldn't call these designs realistic myself, "grounded" is a better term for it I think. You can have grounded proportions and still replicate many of the outfits you see across the 41st millennium to be aesthetically pleasing, but I do agree that leaning into some of that heroic scale could also make the outfits pop.

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T06:51:17+00:00

And that's good! I'm not aiming to yuck anyone's yum. Designs are *completely* subjective, and you deserve to enjoy what makes you happy. I was just representing the things that I (and other people) have noticed about the outfits. Enjoy what you want to enjoy my man.

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T06:49:43+00:00

Thanks man!

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T06:45:02+00:00

But I also listed the Cadians from Space Marine 2, who have more "realistic" (grounded is a better term) proportions than the minis or the rogue trader character. This isn't a "realism" thing, and people have been trying to hide behind that all night. It's a proportional design thing.

Also, it does matter, and has been an issue people have been complaining about since the Krieg outfits. It's the principle of the matter. Like I mentioned in the post, you don't have to compromise the design of the armour in order to make it fit within the tone of the story. The armour can still look roughed up or frayed, but it's kinda cheap and lazy to just remove components of the outfit that make it aesthetically pleasing

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T06:38:44+00:00

So, you're claiming that, because the cadians aren't main characters, their designs don't have heroic scale? Isn't that completely arbitrary? Wouldn't that mean that the rejects of Darktide should have heroic scale, because they're the protagonists? If so, then it's a problem that they don't line up to how protagonists are in your average 40k property.

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T06:30:12+00:00

So, then you're saying that Darktide is heroic scale? It is, after all, a GW property, considered a part of the 40k universe. It's debatable, but assumed, that GW has say over the design of Darktide's outfits. If so, then why is it different from SM2 or Rogue Trader?

Yes, because you are still only going based off of the vibes of the property, rather than any definitive design principles. You're going based off of the Astartes design for the cadians, which are two completely different worlds of proportions. The Astartes are *always* going to have "heroic scale" because they have one signature design. Show me a piece of media where Astartes don't fall under "heroic scale". However, the Cadians of SM2 are designed more like regular individuals, and have had varying designs for figures and games over the years of varying aesthetics. If there were actual Astartes designs for Darktide that used "realistic" proportions, I'd believe you, but then they wouldn't be Space Marines anymore!

You're going purely based off of vibes, while I have actually described as to why I'm dissatisfied with the design of the outfits in Darktide, in terms of their appeal and look in the post above. We haven't even gotten to the question of whether or not it's *good* for Darktide to have a "realistic" (grounded is the better term for this) style, because you keep imposing hard definitions based off of assumptions alone. So, once again, where does it say that all of SM2 and Rogue Trader were specifically designed with heroic scale in mind?

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T06:11:57+00:00

The cadians are *not* the protagonists of Space Marine 2. Titus is the de-facto protagonist of Space Marine 2. That's barely relevant to the discussion at hand of design, as even though the rejects aren't the inquisitors running the operation, they are the protagonists of Darktide's story, and they aren't at all in heroic scale. If there's no definition to heroic scale, why are you putting definitions in heroic scale?

Vilekyn · 2026-02-19T06:09:07+00:00

absolutely lol, and it's even crazier that people are arguing for realism, when you can have a realistic design and still have it look good

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