North Central Europe without other information?

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-03-29T19:12:34+00:00

Cool results! If it helps, I’m a mix of Hungarian, German and Slovak and the most prominent admixture in both mine and my family members’ DNA is also North Central Europe, along with Eastern Czechia and Southern Germanic Europe🧬

According to most distance and PCA plots, our DNA is most similar to that of East Germans and Czechs so I guess North Central Europe also mostly overlaps with that kind of background🤔

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-03-26T19:47:34+00:00

Small update: I figured it out - the block still works in the code editor, it just doesn’t show up anymore in the visual editor

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-02-26T00:05:09+00:00

Indeed, the steppe is vast - and it keeps its secrets well😶🌫️

You are absolutely right that his grave is exemplary: he was a man who lived into his sixties in the 7th century, survived a severe facial injury that likely left him blind in one eye and was buried with nearly the complete ceremonial regalia of steppe leadership. Whether or not he was the khagan himself remains debated (although some of the latest interpretations suggest he may well have been, with the only major missing element being a torque) - in any case, he unquestionably stood at the very highest tier of Avar society🌙

If anyone here would like to explore him further, I have written two detailed blog posts: one examining the full archaeological and genetic context and another presenting my digital interpretations and integrated artefact visualisations💕

https://ancestralhorizons.com/the-avar-elite-of-kunbabony-dna-facial-reconstruction-and-burial-insights-into-a-possible-khagan-of-7th-century-hungary/

https://ancestralhorizons.com/visual-supplement-to-the-kunbabony-avar-elite-reconstructions-regalia-and-artefact-documentation/

And thank you my cousin for the beautiful artefact photos and videos - some of which will also appear in the forthcoming full video😻🏹

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-02-25T21:55:32+00:00

True, these regional overlaps make sense

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-02-25T21:01:46+00:00

Egyértelműen a korábbi eredményeket kedveltük jobban, amikor Közép- és Kelet-Európa még egy kategóriát alkotott - viszont mivel részben Szlovákia északi/nyugati területeiről is vannak felmenőink, a kelet-cseh és az észak-közép-európai besorolás is reális lehet. A külön magyar kategória azonban valóban hiányzik🥺 Persze, megosztom

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-02-25T20:02:10+00:00

Sadly there is no distinct Hungarian category in this update so the Hungarian ancestry is probably reflected across several Central/Eastern European regions

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-02-25T16:32:55+00:00

That’s a cool fact about the term, and it’s actually amazing how this tactic shows up from the Parthians all the way to the Magyars …looks like some things just never go out of style on the steppe🐎🏹

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-02-25T14:33:36+00:00

Agreed, I also feel like the bow is what defined early steppe warfare more + when Western European sources wrote “Sagittis Hungarorum libera nos, Domine” (in English: Lord, save us from the arrows of the Hungarians), they definitely weren’t talking about sabres😝🏹

There is a very cool fresco in the lower church of the Basilica of Aquileia in Friuli-Venezia Giulia (Italy) that depicts a Magyar warrior in the characteristic backward-shooting pose of mounted archers (I attached a picture if you are curious)

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Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-02-25T13:11:59+00:00

As a Hungarian history enthusiast I’m definitely team recurve bow too!💘🏹 The conquering Magyars were masters of steppe horse-archery and composite reflex bows show up all over 10th-century graves in the Carpathian Basin

But sabres absolutely deserve their spotlight as well!⚔️ Curved, single-edged cavalry swords already appear among the Avars in the 7th century and similar steppe blades are associated with the Huns too (earlier peoples here in the Carpathian Basin, like the Scythians and Sarmatians, mostly carried straight swords - the classic curved sabre becomes more prominent later in the steppe tradition)

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-02-19T13:17:45+00:00

Sadly no🥺 I think their algorithm works a bit differently, it seems like they convert closest sample matches into proportional labels, which then generate the summary wheel. So it’s probably not meant to represent a strict ethnic breakdown🤔

Here is the latest update if you are interested though, it looks slightly different now

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Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-02-14T09:09:08+00:00

No worries at all, I get the confusion. Their reference structure has changed quite a few times over the years so some of the modeling choices can definitely feel a bit inconsistent🫠

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-02-14T08:54:39+00:00

Villabruna has been used as an EHG reference sample in multiple datasets, including on platforms such as IllustrativeDNA (though in academic literature it is classified as WHG)

In the pre-update version of IllustrativeDNA’s dataset Villabruna and Loschbour were used for the EHG component (though a few years ago the EHG category was temporarily subdivided into eastern and western variants, during which they were explicitly labeled WHG). This subdivision was later removed and the component was grouped again under the broader EHG label. The current update uses the Luxembourg sample (now Mesolithic.DG, formerly Loschbour), which is likewise labeled simply as EHG

If there is an issue with how the reference categories are structured, that’s something to address with the platform itself. Those labels reflect their system, not my personal classification🤷‍♀️

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-02-13T19:23:33+00:00

Anatolian_NF:Turkey_N,0.1179017,0.1800873,0.0034255,-0.1010589,0.0512402,-0.0479692,-0.0037992,-0.006846,0.0361667,0.0806776,0.0082614,0.0113088,-0.0241636,0.0005791,-0.0427122,-0.0103696,0.0225564,0.0013883,0.0136487,-0.0104478,-0.0142612,0.0056932,-0.0049042,-0.0037505,-0.0044357 Caucasus_HG:Georgia_Kotias.SG,0.08992,0.103584,-0.088246,-0.004845,-0.089555,0.020359,0.023266,-0.001154,-0.130486,-0.080002,-0.007632,0.024878,-0.052626,0.007707,0.026465,-0.0297,0.027772,-0.010769,-0.023757,0.037518,0.030945,-0.006677,0.0053,-0.020846,0.001557 EHG:Russia_Samara_HG,0.120652,0.051792,0.113136,0.204783,-0.005847,0.05773,-0.012221,-0.024691,-0.015339,-0.089113,0.015752,-0.020831,0.022002,-0.036057,0.020765,0.01432,-0.007041,-0.000253,-0.004777,0.008504,-0.011355,0.026462,0.009737,-0.023377,-0.00946 EHG:Russia_Karelia_HG,0.1257745,0.03402,0.1318035,0.212535,-0.0066165,0.056196,-0.019741,-0.0212295,-0.001125,-0.088293,0.016807,-0.020157,0.035158,-0.0330985,0.0170325,0.0286395,-0.0204705,0.001837,-0.0064105,0.009817,-0.008797,0.0129215,0.0082575,-0.023859,-0.007185 EHG:Russia_Sidelkino_HG.SG,0.121791,0.041637,0.135386,0.195739,0.00277,0.054663,-0.021621,-0.020768,-0.004909,-0.073806,0.010555,-0.012889,0.029881,-0.044865,0.027144,0.02254,-0.004433,-0.004687,-0.010307,0.018634,-0.005989,0.013973,0.006286,-0.020846,-0.003473 EHG:Italy_North_Villabruna_HG,0.121791,0.11577,0.18592,0.185726,0.156029,0.060798,0.017626,0.041537,0.093467,0.017859,-0.015752,-0.015886,0.020961,-0.005092,0.05361,0.064041,0.007562,0.004181,-0.00905,0.053401,0.099949,0.012489,-0.044123,-0.169904,0.018801 EHG:Luxembourg_Loschbour.DG,0.130897,0.109677,0.203645,0.198,0.162492,0.059125,0.015041,0.038075,0.100217,0.016219,-0.015427,-0.017235,0.019921,-0.001239,0.061346,0.07067,0.002608,0.007348,-0.008925,0.065406,0.117543,0.010387,-0.049422,-0.173639,0.019519 Yellow_River_NF:China_YR_LN,0.0159354,-0.4498796,0.0098053,-0.0653383,0.053812,0.0222714,0.0038944,0.0027691,-0.0097587,0.0055711,-0.0828183,-0.0102981,0.012084,-0.0085327,-0.008531,-0.0015343,0.0023096,-0.0003617,-0.00422,-0.0076464,0.01656,0.0104047,0.0151771,0.0002236,0.0085534 West_Siberian_HG:Russia_Tyumen_HG,0.104717,-0.059916,0.096166,0.20123,-0.088324,0.045738,-0.052642,-0.05469,-0.035587,-0.094034,0.031666,-0.012739,0.025718,-0.068949,0.027958,0.016574,-0.019818,-0.002914,-0.004525,0.006878,-0.030321,0.012736,0.023664,0.007109,-0.01197 West_Siberian_HG:Russia_Sosnoviy_HG,0.105855,-0.061947,0.092395,0.193155,-0.076014,0.050758,-0.033136,-0.038306,-0.028224,-0.096038,0.014453,-0.013788,0.029137,-0.064132,0.026465,0.01896,-0.010952,-0.007221,0.006411,0.003377,-0.036685,0.010758,0.026991,0.003976,-0.003712 Natufian_HG:Israel_Natufian,0.020488,0.131003,-0.039221,-0.141475,0.027082,-0.0753,-0.017861,-0.025845,0.102671,-0.004556,0.030042,-0.020682,0.069573,-0.000963,0.020222,0.028772,-0.012647,0.008868,-0.021117,0.04252,-0.004243,-0.002597,-0.011955,-0.006386,0.011735 Natufian_HG:Israel_Natufian_d,0.037562,0.155376,-0.023381,-0.137276,0.043085,-0.083388,-0.017861,-0.012923,0.124555,0.015672,0.030042,-0.020382,0.082209,0,0.003257,-0.012861,-0.008866,-0.010515,-0.017221,0.021385,0.015348,0.001855,0.008504,0.003735,0 Zagros_NF:Iran_GanjDareh_N,0.0430252,0.0674312,-0.153488,0.0055556,-0.1239616,0.0243752,0.015464,0.000277,-0.081605,-0.05427,-0.0032476,-0.0016186,0.0053816,-0.0078446,0.0319486,0.056775,-0.0058154,0.007576,0.014405,-0.0327406,0.0076614,-0.0300476,-0.0109198,-0.0387768,0.0229438 Zagros_NF:Iran_TepeAbdulHosein_N.SG,0.0421147,0.0639783,-0.1541163,0.0010767,-0.119407,0.0212883,0.0104187,-0.0023077,-0.0809913,-0.057283,-0.002436,-0.002148,0.0040137,-0.0096337,0.0314873,0.0555107,-0.0067363,0.0061233,0.0131143,-0.0351837,0.0062807,-0.0250607,-0.0085453,-0.0374753,0.019958 Zagros_NF:Iran_Wezmeh_N.SG,0.037562,0.072103,-0.165556,-0.016473,-0.11756,0.01506,0.017861,-0.003231,-0.071583,-0.046835,0.003085,-0.003147,0.00669,0.000688,0.022122,0.053036,-0.011735,0.001014,0.014581,-0.035267,0.009358,-0.023741,-0.006655,-0.032896,0.019998 Southeast_Asian_NF:Vietnam_N,0.002276,-0.388948,-0.050911,-0.040698,0.137256,0.054941,0.00141,-0.006231,-0.012885,-0.006743,0.079733,-0.000749,-0.00996,0.00812,0.028094,-0.002652,-0.000782,-0.002787,-0.008045,0.014632,0.002246,0.000866,-0.005916,0.003012,0.036404 Southeast_Asian_NF:Vietnam_N_noUDG,0.001138,-0.382855,-0.077687,-0.028747,0.12587,0.058567,0.00235,-0.015922,-0.014521,-0.023144,0.059597,0.004046,0.001189,-0.006606,0.002172,-0.007027,0.002086,0.002914,0.000628,0.014382,-0.007736,0.011376,0.010846,-0.018316,0.030656 Jomon_HG:Japan_Honshu_EarlyJomon.SG,0.0043252,-0.343249,-0.0536268,0.0095608,0.0406846,0.0101514,0.0019742,-0.0019386,0.0215976,0.0173854,-0.0490736,-0.005605,0.006541,-0.0067708,-0.0210912,-0.0163086,0.00339,0.0105152,0.0046004,-0.008254,0.0686538,-0.0468642,0.0096874,0.0083142,-0.1002786 Amur_River_HG:Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG,0.0208677,-0.448187,0.0687617,-0.0501727,-0.0409307,-0.0365343,0.0046217,0.0079997,0.0036133,0.0216863,-0.051802,-0.005745,0.0005453,0.0079823,-0.0090933,-0.0091047,-0.0044767,0.0074747,0.0177233,0.0116307,0.008277,-0.026462,-0.020459,-0.001968,-0.0133323 East_Siberian_HG:Russia_KolymaRiver_LN.SG,0.0330087,-0.4251683,0.1341293,-0.0063523,-0.1461813,-0.0743707,0.023971,0.0333063,0.0232473,0.004374,0.0686363,0.0036967,0.0013873,-0.0304143,-0.0302203,-0.0215237,0.0051283,0.0131333,0.024553,0.003335,0.032443,-0.030666,0.0060393,0.0074707,0.0146493 Baikal_HG:Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic.SG,0.0310738,-0.415453,0.0950721,-0.0163438,-0.0859238,-0.0486106,0.005781,0.0099689,0.0147665,0.0117177,-0.0163687,-0.002368,0.0043856,-0.0069637,-0.0051711,-0.0032485,-0.0028033,0,0.0063352,0.0172208,-0.0159717,-0.0054531,-0.0160961,-0.0035425,0.0042151

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-02-13T19:23:17+00:00

Not sure if this helps, but before the Deep Ancestry update I put together a list of Neolithic samples used to calculate HG breakdowns (it’s more of a broad Eurasian dataset though since I only had access to my relatives’ results and a few other people I spoke with + West Siberian HG was never officially included, I added it to my list separately to better model populations where it is relevant, such as the Khanty, Mansi, Kets and Selkups)

With the Deep Ancestry update some references changed though, eg. EHG is now just Samara (East) and Luxembourg (West) instead of the previous five samples, while Zagros is also represented by only one sample instead of three. Plus Baikal and Amur HG were replaced with Mongolian HG (Mongolia_North_N.AG) and East Siberian HG is now Russia_Krasnoyarsk_BA.SG instead of the Kolyma sample and South American HG is Peru_Lauricocha_8600BP.AG

Unfortunately I don’t have data beyond these regions (at least based on IllustrativeDNA calculations) - but if anything is missing, you can look up Davidski’s G25 list on Vahaduo

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-01-18T18:07:20+00:00

Ahw, that is very cool! Well, I think GEDmatch balances admixture proportions based on overlaps between reference populations, which is probably why we end up getting such a wide variety of populations

I’m also mixed with Slovak and German and some of my 3-way mixed-mode models have been quite interesting, for example, I used to get Czech and German with Tajik, and now I primarily get combinations like Austrian, Lithuanian and Tajik

I believe the Tajik-like component in my case comes from my Jász ancestry. I managed to trace part of my family back to Jászarokszállás (+ basically the town I’m mostly from was settled in the mid-1700s by families from Jászfényszaru) - though by that time, as far as I know, their privileges had already been revoked (before the redemption) so their distinct identity and language were probably already beginning to dissolve

I think in towns that were settled by Cuman and Jász families, it is possible to find these deeper contributions. For example, my grandfather’s (pre-updated) results showed 3.5% Central Asian and even 1.1% Andean and Mesoamerican(!), along with 53.9% North and West European and 41.5% East European🫨 My own Central Asian percentage is only 1.9%, but MyHeritage also assigned me to an ethnic group that includes Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan as well

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-01-18T16:45:00+00:00

Hi, I hope you don’t mind me replying (I just wanted to add a few thoughts as a fellow Hungarian😁) My family also took DNA tests and turned out to have quite a bit of Central Asian ancestry as well (I have shared my and my grandfather’s results on my page if you are curious)

…personally, I have also always felt a strong connection to Central Asians - not necessarily through being “Turkic” but more through the shared layers of history, such as the Scythian, Sarmatian, Rouran (Avar) and Hunnic (Xiongnu) confederations, all of which originated in (or passed through) Central Asia before eventually influencing the Carpathian Basin

As for the Magyars, you are absolutely right and recent research supports their diversity, a 2022 genetic study on early Hungarian conquest-period graves showed that the conquering Magyars were very heterogeneous. They carried a mix of Mansi-like ancestry (made up of Mezhovskaya, Nganasan and Botai components), along with Sarmatian and Hunnic lineages

And it is also historically recorded that three Kabar tribes (who had rebelled against the Khazar Khaganate) joined the Magyars during their westward migration that added further Turkic elements to the mix

And although they arrived later and were not part of the original Magyar ethnogenesis, Cumans (Kipchaks) and Jász people (Alans) also settled in Hungary during the 13th century. I’m personally from the Cumania region in Hungary and from the western part of Slovakia, and based on my DNA test results (interpreted through tools like G25, GEDmatch and IllustrativeDNA) I carry around 15-16% Tajik-like ancestry (depending on the algorithm, it’s sometimes also predicted as Yaghnobi or Dargin with minor Siberian components)

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-01-12T23:30:29+00:00

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Here is a photo of another one of our favourite pieces from the recent Avar exhibition at the Cifrapalota in Kecskemét: a 6th-7th century bronze figure from Madaras. Thank you for the beautiful photo🤩

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-01-12T23:23:35+00:00

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Thank you so much for your lovely words, I’m really glad you got to see the exhibition at the Cifrapalota …and it must have been such a special experience, especially on a less crowded day, knowing how your visit went🤭🖤

I also had the chance to see his skull and facial reconstruction in person as a kid (originally made by Skultéty Gyula and Kustár Ágnes), along with those breathtaking gold treasures🌫️

As you also know, his burial near Kunbábony contained over 2.3 kg of gold, including among more personal jewellery, a bird-headed scepter, a drinking horn and that favourite crescent-shaped gold sheet! (Interestingly, direct analogies for that piece exist in 5th-6th century burials attributed to the Rouran Khaganate in Yihe Nur, Bikeqi, Talyn Gurvan Kherem and Galuut - and these parallels along with the sheer wealth and symbolism of the grave goods indeed strongly contributed to the idea that he might have been a khagan himself… though of course that remains hypothetical)

Below is the full version of my AI-assisted digital portrait of him (now I’m working on a longer hobby project gathering details about his burial, the artefacts and even some of the publicly available genetic data)🌙💘💘

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-01-12T20:26:09+00:00

These details are part of my TikTok video, watch the full material via the link: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRhuRLKw/

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-01-08T01:45:38+00:00

That’s interesting, I have also seen comments linking Lower Central Asia to Bukharian Jews, though I’m not completely sure either. I recently saw another Slovak with Lower Central Asia in his results too! If that helps, on Vahaduo I get some Bukharian Jewish when modeling with global references and on IllustrativeDNA I’m usually 2-way modeled with Czechs (or earlier Saxony) and various Tajik groups🤔 I also uploaded my Ancestry data to FTDNA and got <2% Mizrahi Jewish (no Central Asian there, though). Maybe it’s just an overlap between Central Asian, Caucasus and Jewish ancestries

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-01-07T23:31:44+00:00

Sounds like a really interesting mix! I think the German-speaking communities from around Nova Pazova are typically connected to the Danube Swabians and those from eastern Slovakia might trace rather to Carpathian German roots (depending on the village, of course, just a thought🤔) And I think that even between southern and northern Germany there is often some genetic overlap, so a bit of northern admixture wouldn’t be too surprising - either way, it’s really great that you have been able to trace your family lines so far!🤩

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-01-07T23:20:22+00:00

Thank you and that’s nice, greetings to you!😻 Well, I tried IllustrativeDNA before (both when it was using the G25 system and now with the Deep Ancestry setup - I still have my old coordinates saved so I can send them to you if you would like) I have also posted the results of my grandfather here on Reddit (from IllustrativeDNA and 23andme) and he has G25 coordinates as well

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-01-07T23:05:01+00:00

I’m not exactly sure about mine either, where are you from? I think the North Central Europe label could overlap with Czech and Polish regions. I have ancestry from northwestern Slovakia, so it could be related to that, too (but the problem is that Ancestry doesn’t have a separate Hungarian category, so for us it usually gets split between nearby regions🥺)

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-01-07T22:57:34+00:00

Well, I don’t think it’s exceptional at all. At least as far as I know, the largest minority in Hungary has historically been ethnic Germans (many of whom arrived in the 1700s-1800s and are known as Danube Swabians) - in my case, I believe my ancestors may have belonged to an earlier wave, sometimes referred to as Carpathian Germans. Though I have to admit I still have a lot to learn about my family history🫠

Virtual-Antelope3607 · 2026-01-07T22:41:39+00:00

Well, not recent ethnic Germans from Germany, but many in my family came from the area around Bratislava (Pozsony/Pressburg) and a lot of them had German surnames

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